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  1. #1
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    Default We have to look into our darkest day

    I am going to get hammered hard here, but the fact is that those of use who have been on the job for awhile know that we need a good look into what went right and wrong. I have been at metrotech and know that a big look is in the making and I for one hope that it causes us to change. Many brothers don't want outside people looking in and I agree. We have brothers still missing. But we gotta start. We probably need outside people who cna be objective about things. I know we will have. talk about it because it needs to be talked about. Dont let the fact that it is the FDNY deter you. We lost too many, too soon.


  2. #2
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    I will only ask this once again to all that view this subject.....PLEASE STOP!!! There is nothing to hide. For most of you 911 is over. That's ok LIFE GOES ON. But let us bury our dead first. Then ALL you experts can say what you want.
    It will ALL come out from the people that where there and not from this or any other Forum.

    PLEASE REMEMBER TO SAY A PRAY FOR
    Agnello Joseph Firefighter FDNY Ladder 118 - Ahearn Brian Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 13
    Allen Richard Firefighter FDNY Ladder 15 Allen - Eric Firefighter FDNY Squad 18
    Amato James Captain FDNY Squad 1 - Anaya Jr. Calixto Firefighter FDNY Engine 4
    Angelini Joseph Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1 - Angelini Jr. Joseph Firefighter FDNY Ladder 4
    Apostol Jr. Faustino Firefighter FDNY Battalion 2 - Arce David Firefighter FDNY Engine 33
    Arena Louis Firefighter FDNY Ladder 5 - Asaro Carl Firefighter FDNY Battalion 9
    Atlas Gregg Lieutenant FDNY Engine 10 - Atwood Gerald Firefighter FDNY Ladder 21
    Baptiste Gerard Firefighter FDNY Ladder 9 - Barbara Gerard Assistant Chief FDNY
    Barnes Matthew Firefighter FDNY Ladder 25 - Barry Arthur Firefighter FDNY Ladder 15
    Bates Steven Lieutenant FDNY Engine 235 - Bedigian Carl Firefighter FDNY Engine 214
    Belson Stephen Firefighter FDNY Ladder 24 - Bergin John Firefighter FDNY Rescue 5
    Beyer Paul Firefighter FDNY Engine 6 - Bielfeld Peter Firefighter FDNY Ladder 42
    Bilcher Brian Firefighter FDNY Squad 1 - Bini Carl Firefighter FDNY Rescue 5
    Blackwell Christopher Firefighter FDNY Rescue 3 - Bocchino Michael Firefighter FDNY Battalion 48
    Bonomo Frank Firefighter FDNY Engine 23 - Box Gary Firefighter FDNY Squad 1
    Boyle Michael Firefighter FDNY Engine 33 - Bracken Kevin Firefighter FDNY Engine 40
    Brennan Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 4 - Brennan Peter Firefighter FDNY Rescue 4
    Brethel Daniel Captain FDNY Ladder 24 - Brown Patrick Captain FDNY Ladder 3
    Brunn Andrew Firefighter FDNY Ladder 5 - Brunton Vincent Captain FDNY Ladder 105
    Bucca Ronald FM FDNY Fire Marshal - Buck Greg Firefighter FDNY Engine 201
    Burke Jr. William Captain FDNY Engine 21 - Burns Donald Assistant Chief FDNY
    Burnside John Firefighter FDNY Ladder 20 - Butler Thomas Firefighter FDNY Squad 1
    Byrne Patrick Firefighter FDNY Ladder 101 - Cain George Firefighter FDNY Ladder 7
    Calabro Salvatore Firefighter FDNY Ladder 101 - Callahan Frank Captain FDNY Ladder 35
    Cammarata Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 11 - Carey Dennis Firefighter FDNY Hazmat
    Carlo Michael Firefighter FDNY Engine 230 - Carroll Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 3
    Carroll Peter Firefighter FDNY Squad 1 - Casoria Thomas Firefighter FDNY Engine 22
    Cawley Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 136 - Cherry Vernon Firefighter FDNY Ladder 11
    Chiofalo Nicholas Firefighter FDNY Engine 235 - Chipura John Firefighter FDNY Engine 219
    Clarke Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 2 - Coakley Steven Firefighter FDNY Engine 217
    Coleman Tarel Firefighter FDNY Squad 252 - Collins John Firefighter FDNY Ladder 25
    Cordice Robert Firefighter FDNY Squad 1 - Correa Ruben Firefighter FDNY Engine 74
    Corrigan James Captain FDNY - Coyle James Firefighter FDNY Ladder 3
    Crawford Robert Firefighter FDNY Safety Battalion - Crisci John Lieutenant FDNY Hazmat
    Cross Dennis Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 57 - Cullen 3rd Thomas Firefighter FDNY Squad 41
    Curatolo Robert Firefighter FDNY Ladder 16 - D'Auria Michael Firefighter FDNY Engine 40
    Datri Edward Lieutenant FDNY Squad - Davidson Scott Firefighter FDNY Ladder 118
    Day Edward Firefighter FDNY Ladder 11 - De Rubbio David Firefighter FDNY Engine 226
    Deangelis Thomas Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 8 - Delvalle Manuel Firefighter FDNY Engine 5
    Demeo Martin Firefighter FDNY Hazmat - Desperito Andrew Lieutenant FDNY Engine 1
    Devlin Dennis Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 9 - Dewan Gerard Firefighter FDNY Ladder 3
    Dipasquale George Firefighter FDNY Ladder 2 - Donnelly Kevin Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 3
    Dowdell Kevin Lieutenant FDNY Rescue 4 - Downey Raymond Battalion Chief FDNY
    Duffy Gerard Firefighter FDNY Ladder 21 - Egan Martin Captain FDNY Division 15
    Elferis Michael Firefighter FDNY Engine 22 - Esposito Francis Firefighter FDNY Engine 235
    Esposito Michael Lieutenant FDNY Squad 1 - Evans Robert Firefighter FDNY Engine 33
    Fanning John Battalion Chief FDNY Hazmat - Farino Thomas Battalion Chief FDNY Engine 26
    Farrell Terrence Firefighter FDNY Rescue 4 - Farrelly Joseph Captain FDNY Division 1 Feehan William First Deputy Commissioner FDNY 1st DC
    Fehling Lee Firefighter FDNY Engine 235 - Feinberg Alan Firefighter FDNY Battalion 9
    Fiore Michael Firefighter FDNY Rescue 5 - Fischer John Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 20
    Fletcher Andre Firefighter FDNY Rescue 5 - Florio John Firefighter FDNY Engine 214
    Fodor Michael Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 21 - Foley Thomas Firefighter FDNY Rescue 3
    Fontana David Firefighter FDNY Squad 1 - Foti Robert Firefighter FDNY Ladder 7
    Fredericks Andrew Firefighter FDNY Squad 18 - Freund Peter Lieutenant FDNY Engine 55
    Gambino Jr. Thomas Firefighter FDNY Rescue 3 - Ganci Jr. Peter Chief of Department FDNY Chief Of Dept.
    Garbarini Charles Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 9 - Gardner Thomas Firefighter FDNY Hazmat
    Garvey Matthew Firefighter FDNY Squad 1 - Gary Bruce Firefighter FDNY Engine 40
    Geidel Gary Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1 - Geraghty Edward Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 9
    Germain Denis Firefighter FDNY Ladder 2 - Giammona Vincent Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 5
    Giberson James Firefighter FDNY Ladder 35 - Gies Ronnie Firefighter FDNY Squad 288
    Gill Paul Firefighter FDNY Engine 54 - Ginley John Lieutenant FDNY Engine 40
    Giordano John Firefighter FDNY Hazmat - Giordano Jeffrey Firefighter FDNY Ladder 3
    Glascoe Keith Firefighter FDNY Ladder 21 - Gray James Firefighter FDNY Ladder 20
    Grzelak Joseph Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 48 - Guadalupe Jose Firefighter FDNY Engine 54
    Guja Geoffrey Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 43 - Gullickson Joseph Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 101
    Halderman David Firefighter FDNY Squad 18 - Halloran Vincent Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 8
    Hamilton Robert Firefighter FDNY Squad 41 - Hanley Sean Firefighter FDNY Ladder 20
    Hannafin Thomas Firefighter FDNY Ladder 5 - Hannon Dana Firefighter FDNY Engine 26
    Harlin Daniel Firefighter FDNY Ladder 2 - Harrell Stephen Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 7
    Harrell Harvey Lieutenant FDNY Rescue 5 - Haskell Timothy Firefighter FDNY Squad 18
    Haskell Jr. Thomas Captain FDNY Division 15 - Hatton Terence Captain FDNY Rescue 1
    Haub Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 4 - Hayes Philip Firefighter FDNY Engine 217
    Healey Michael Lieutenant FDNY Squad 41 - Heffernan John Firefighter FDNY Ladder 11
    Henderson Ronnie Firefighter FDNY Engine 279 - Henry William Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1
    Henry Joseph Firefighter FDNY Ladder 21 - Hetzel Thomas Firefighter FDNY Ladder 13
    Hickey Brian Captain FDNY Rescue 4Higgins Timothy Lieutenant FDNY Special Op. Found
    Hohmann Jonathan Firefighter FDNY Hazmat - Holohan Thomas Firefighter FDNY Engine 6
    Hunter Joseph Firefighter FDNY Squad 288 - Hynes Walter Captain FDNY Ladder 13
    Ielpi Jonathan Firefighter FDNY Squad 288 - Ill Jr. Frederick Captain FDNY Ladder 2
    Johnston William Firefighter FDNY Engine 6 - Jordan Andrew Firefighter FDNY Ladder 132
    Joseph Karl Firefighter FDNY Engine 207 - Jovic Anthony Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 47
    Juarbe Jr. Angel Firefighter FDNY Ladder 12 - Judge Mychal Chaplain FDNY Chaplain
    Kane Vincent Firefighter FDNY Engine 22 - Kasper Charles Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion Soc
    Keating Paul Firefighter FDNY Ladder 5 - Kelly Thomas Firefighter FDNY Ladder 105
    Kelly Thomas Firefighter FDNY Ladder 15 - Kelly Jr. Richard Firefighter FDNY Ladder 11
    Kennedy Thomas Firefighter FDNY Ladder 101 - Kerwin Ronald Lieutenant FDNY Squad 288
    Kiefer Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 132 - King Jr. Robert Firefighter FDNY Engine 33
    Kopytko Scott Firefighter FDNY Ladder 15 - Krukowski William Firefighter FDNY Ladder 21
    Kumpel Kenneth Firefighter FDNY Ladder 25 - Kuveikis Thomas Firefighter FDNY Squad 252
    Laforge David Firefighter FDNY Ladder 20 Lake William Firefighter FDNY Rescue 2
    Lane Robert Firefighter FDNY Engine 55 - Langone Peter Firefighter FDNY Squad 252
    Larsen Scott Firefighter FDNY Ladder 15 - Leavey Joseph Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 15
    Leavy Neil Firefighter FDNY Engine 217 - Libretti Daniel Firefighter FDNY Rescue 2 Linnane Robert Firefighter FDNY Ladder 20 -Lynch Michael Firefighter FDNY Engine 40 Lynch Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 4 - Lyons Michael Firefighter FDNY Squad 41 Lyons Patrick Firefighter FDNY Squad 252
    Maffeo Joseph Firefighter FDNY Ladder 101 - Mahoney William Firefighter FDNY Rescue 4
    Maloney Joseph Firefighter FDNY Battalion 6 - Marchbanks Jr. Joseph Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 12
    Margiotta Charles Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 22 - Marino Kenneth Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1
    Marshall John Firefighter FDNY Engine 23 - Martin Peter Lieutenant FDNY Rescue 2
    Martini Paul Lieutenant FDNY Engine 201 - Mascali Joseph Firefighter FDNY Tactical Support
    Maynard Keithroy Firefighter FDNY Engine 33 - McAleese Brian Firefighter FDNY Engine 226
    McAvoy John Firefighter FDNY Ladder 3 - McCann Thomas Firefighter FDNY Battalion 8
    McGinn William Lieutenant FDNY Squad 18 - McGovern William Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 2
    McHugh Dennis Firefighter FDNY Ladder 13 - McMahon Robert Firefighter FDNY Ladder 20
    McPadden Robert Firefighter FDNY Engine 23 - McShane Terence Firefighter FDNY Ladder 101
    McSweeney Timothy Firefighter FDNY Ladder 3 - McWilliams Martin Firefighter FDNY Engine 22
    Meisenheimer Raymond Firefighter FDNY Rescue 3 - Mendez Charles Firefighter FDNY Ladder 7
    Mercado Steve Firefighter FDNY Engine 40 - Miller Douglas Firefighter FDNY Rescue 5
    Miller Jr. Henry Firefighter FDNY Ladder 105 - Minara Robert Firefighter FDNY Ladder 25
    Mingione Thomas Firefighter FDNY Ladder 132 - Mitchell Paul Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 1
    Modafferi Louis Battalion Chief FDNY Rescue 5 - Mojica Dennis Lieutenant FDNY Rescue 1
    Mojica Manuel Firefighter FDNY Squad 18 - Molinaro Carl Firefighter FDNY Ladder 2
    Montesi Michael Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1 - Moody Thomas Captain FDNY Division 1
    Moran John Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 49 - Morello Vincent Firefighter FDNY Ladder 35
    Mozzillo Christopher Firefighter FDNY Engine 55 - Muldowney Jr. Richard Firefighter FDNY Ladder 7
    Mullan Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 12 - Mulligan Dennis Firefighter FDNY Ladder 2
    Murphy Raymond Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 16 - Nagel Robert Lieutenant FDNY Engine 58
    Napolitano John Firefighter FDNY Rescue 2 - Nelson Peter Firefighter FDNY Rescue 4
    Nevins Gerard Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1 O'Berg Dennis Firefighter FDNY Ladder 105
    O'Callaghan Daniel Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 4 - O'Keefe William Captain FDNY Division 15
    O'Keefe Patrick Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1 - O'Rourke Kevin Firefighter FDNY Rescue 2
    Oelschlager Douglas Firefighter FDNY Ladder 15 - Ogren Joseph Firefighter FDNY Ladder 3
    Ohagan Thomas Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 4 - Oitice Samuel Firefighter FDNY Ladder 4
    Olsen Jeffrey Firefighter FDNY Engine 10 - Olsen Eric Firefighter FDNY Ladder 15
    Olson Steven Firefighter FDNY Ladder 3 - Otten Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 35
    Palazzo Jeffrey Firefighter FDNY Rescue 5 - Palmer Orio Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 7
    Palombo Frank Firefighter FDNY Ladder 105 - Pansini Paul Firefighter FDNY Engine 10
    Paolillo John Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 11 - Pappageorge James Firefighter FDNY Engine 23
    Parro Robert Firefighter FDNY Engine 8 - Pearsall Durrell Firefighter FDNY Rescue 4
    Perry Glenn Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 12 - Petti Philip Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 7
    Pfeifer Kevin Lieutenant FDNY Engine 33 - Phelan Kenneth Lieutenant FDNY Battalion 32
    Pickford Christopher Firefighter FDNY Engine 201 - Powell Shawn Firefighter FDNY Engine 207
    Princiotta Vincent Firefighter FDNY Ladder 7Prior Kevin Firefighter FDNY Squad 252
    Prunty Richard Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 2 - Quappe Lincoln Firefighter FDNY Rescue 2
    Quilty Michael Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 11 - Ragaglia Leonard Firefighter FDNY Engine 54
    Ragusa Michael Firefighter FDNY Engine 279 - Rall Edward Firefighter FDNY Rescue 2
    Rand Adam Firefighter FDNY Squad 288 - Regan Donald Firefighter FDNY Rescue 3
    Regan Robert Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 118 - Regenhard Christian Firefighter FDNY Ladder 131
    Reilly Kevin Firefighter FDNY Engine 207 - Richard Vernon Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 7
    Riches James Firefighter FDNY Engine 4 - Rivelli Jr. Joseph Firefighter FDNY Ladder 25
    Roberts Michael Firefighter FDNY Ladder 35 - Roberts Michael Firefighter FDNY Engine 214
    Rodriguez Anthony Firefighter FDNY Engine 279 - Rogan Matthew Firefighter FDNY Ladder 11
    Roma Keith Fire Patrol -- Rossomando Nicholas Firefighter FDNY Rescue 5
    Ruback Paul Firefighter FDNY Ladder 25 - Russell Stephen Firefighter FDNY Engine 55
    Russo Michael Lieutenant FDNY Special Op. - Ryan Matthew Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 1
    Sabella Thomas Firefighter FDNY Ladder 13 - Santora Christopher Firefighter FDNY Engine 54
    Santore John Firefighter FDNY Ladder 5 - Saucedo Gregory Firefighter FDNY Ladder 5
    Scauso Dennis Firefighter FDNY Hazmat - Schardt John Firefighter FDNY Engine 201
    Scheffold Fred Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 12 - Schoales Thomas Firefighter FDNY Engine 4
    Schrang Gerard Firefighter FDNY Rescue 3 - Sikorsky Gregory Firefighter FDNY Squad 41
    Siller Stephen Firefighter FDNY Squad 1 - Smagala Jr. Stanley Firefighter FDNY Engine 226 Smith Kevin Firefighter FDNY Hazmat - Smith Jr. Leon Firefighter FDNY Ladder 118 Spear Jr. Robert Firefighter FDNY Engine 26 - Spor Joseph Firefighter FDNY Rescue 3 Stack Lawrence Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 50 - Stackpole Timothy Captain FDNY Division 11 Stajk Gregory Firefighter FDNY Ladder 13 - Stark Jeffrey Firefighter FDNY Engine 230 Suarez Benjamin Firefighter FDNY Ladder 21 - Suhr Daniel Firefighter FDNY Engine 216 Sullivan Christopher Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 111 - Sweeney Brian Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1 Tallon Sean Firefighter FDNY Ladder 10 - Tarasiewicz Allan Firefighter FDNY Rescue 5 Tegtmeier Paul Firefighter FDNY Engine 4 - Tierney John Firefighter FDNY Ladder 9 Tipping 2nd John Firefighter FDNY Ladder 4 - Tirado Jr. Hector Firefighter FDNY Engine 23 Vanhine Richard Firefighter FDNY Squad 41 - Vega Peter Firefighter FDNY Ladder 118 Veling Lawrence Firefighter FDNY Engine 235 - Vigiano II John Firefighter FDNY Ladder 132 Villanueva Sergio Firefighter FDNY Ladder 132 - Virgilio Lawrence Firefighter FDNY Squad 18 Wallace Robert Lieutenant FDNY Engine 205 - Walz Jeffrey Firefighter FDNY Ladder 9 Warchola Michael Lieutenant FDNY Ladder 5 - Waters Patrick Captain FDNY Special Op. Watson Kenneth Firefighter FDNY Engine 214 - Weinberg Michael Firefighter FDNY Engine 1 Weiss David Firefighter FDNY Rescue 1 - Welty Timothy Firefighter FDNY Squad 288 Whelan Eugene Firefighter FDNY Engine 230 - White Edward Firefighter FDNY Engine 230 Whitford Mark Firefighter FDNY Engine 23 - Wilkinson Glenn Lieutenant FDNY Engine 238 Williamson John Battalion Chief FDNY Battalion 6 - Wooley David Captain FDNY Ladder 4 Wren William Firefighter FDNY - York Raymond Firefighter FDNY Engine 285
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  3. #3
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    Default

    May god Bless each of the members listed!

    Just as I said on the other thread, this is what is happening. People are talking. You can't stop it so we have to accept it. However, I choose to comment no further.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Default

    We all feel your loss E40FDNYL35, and everyone mourns and heels in different ways.

    To start talking about what went right and what went wrong that day is not disrespectful to the dead. Learning from those who went before us is the greatest way to honor them.

    It's been nearly five months. Humans naturally want to talk about their experiences, and to learn from those of others. No matter how much FDNY officially (and with some good reasons) may try to keep mum on the investigations, talk we must. As people, talk we will.

    It's disrespectful not to let Firefighters carry out their own. It's disrespectful not to properly investigate the building, to learn why it collapsed as soon as it did.

    In this particular case, it's not disrespectful to start talking about the actions of that day. Not only do we as a nation, and New York as a city need to learn from what happened that day, we need to learn now.

    Now is not the time to assume the events of September 11th are for the history book. Now is not the time to assume terrorism has been purged from the earth simply because it was displaced from Afghanistan. The events of September 11th could be repeated five years from, or tomorrow.

    The norms of keeping quiet until after the incident is over, until all the dead are brought home, do not apply to this incident, normal it was not.

    Nor should we even neccessarily wait for a complete and thorough report. FDNY need not blame anyone or anything -- but they should come out with a brief, official report that is what they consider the most critical lessons learned or problems encountered that day. By brief, it may fit on a page or two or three. A final report may take several years to be finished -- but an interim report is appropriate for this incident. And in this case, we can not wait for everyone to be brought home first.

    Matt

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