03-05-2002, 04:39 PM #276
I am haunting you, over from your poll, to clarify some points.
Fueding, fistfights, and a "friend three times removed told me" all leads up to a good storyline. I read what was posted as facts on the www.mrvfd.org, and on Res. #43, and see the issues. I failed to read about volunteer bashing, or other contrived events.
I understand and warm heartedly applaud your intense morals and "beyond reproach" integrity in standing up for your part time/volunteer organization, as this is all about politics in YOUR mind. I would imagine we both agree as people, there is no room for politics within the fire service. It leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth, and all parties involved lose in the long run.
However, you do not have this decision to make, as you are NOT an IAFF member, nor will your large volunteer FD pension and long term goals be affected by your decision. Not only can you make a decision hypothetically, but you can foresee into the future, of EXACTLY where this issue is going to end up!!! All volunteers will be eviscerated by nuclear holocost, should the evil IAFF have their way. It will even affect Punkin's Corners FD in the Ozarks, who have a $500.00 annual budget. Gee, maybe you should start your own 900 number?
Full time firefighters who violate the Constitution of the IAFF and their Local, still have the freedom of choice. They can still volunteer wherever they want to, as it is a free country. (AMEN) However, they are losing the priviledge (NOT RIGHT) due to their decisions, of belonging to an organization. They will be able to save the $200.00 Union Dues, and work hand in hand beside you, happy in their moral perpetude. The problem is solved, they are where they wish to be, and we all get along.
Maybe if the offending IAFF members contributed more to their organization, they could effect change in a much more positive manner within their own Department, Union and selves? Just food for thought.
Stay safe, EVERYONE!
03-05-2002, 05:57 PM #277
We agree on one thing Fire 61...No room for politics....
oh yea..another thing we agree on....We agree to disagree...
By the way...I know you are being "wise" when you reference my "volunteer pension"...well..for the record, I do not collect one from the volunteer department I served in Virginia, although at age 55 I think I will draw $180.00 month (screwed by politics...hehehe)
I am not olde enough to collect my state retirement yet so I work....and volunteer and will soon work as a part time firefighter (I think)
As for a friend 3 times removed????? Ok..let me re-state...I read in the newspapers when I live in Virgina of fist fights on the fireground, apparatus speeding through busy intersections to "beat the other", hazing of volunteers, hazing of career firefighters in PG County. No one told me...I read it...
You are right...IAFF Members have a choice. My beef is they should not have to make that choice... Yes..I am not a union member and will not be affected. I have friends who may be. My son is a dedicated volunteer and in the process of seeking a career job. He loves the volunteer fire department and I feel he will chose not to belong to the IAFF to keep from having to quit as a volunteer since there are now "career staff" in the county he volunteers in as well as one (1) career firefighter paid by his town govt as a glorified driver. He should not have to make that choice.
You have not answered my one question...What constitutes a "career Department"...does one guy who is not IAFF but paid a salary constitute a career department? I know of at least 6-8 (maybe more) members that would have to quite the Department if that is the case or....of course quit the IAFF. Them quitting the department would devastate it....but not enough to force the Town to hire more people. So.....who suffers...?
By the way...I am honored to have this response to my neighbor in the north to be my 400th post09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
"Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.
03-05-2002, 07:08 PM #278
- Join Date
- Feb 1999
- Bowie, MD USA
One good thing that is coming out of this issue is that my typing skills have improved tremendously. I haven't done this much writing since school and no I won't tell you how long ago that was. Lot's of good conversation, but I would like to pose another question;
Firefighter A has been working for Fire Department Z for 22 years and has been a member of IAFF Local 1 the whole time. Firefighter A has also been a volunteer for 20 of these years in the jurisdiction next door where he lives that has an organized IAFF local. Up until now it hasn't been a problem.
(This is not a fictional person, the names have been changed to protect the innocent!)
The question is, why has it taken 20 years to tell Firefighter A he can not volunteer anymore because he is in violation of a by-law that someone just dug up out of the by-law book to use for their own purposes?
captstanm1 - congrats on #400, you da man!
Oh, and by the way, I didn't see anyone sign my Guest Book at mrvfd.org!
03-05-2002, 07:33 PM #279
Wanna See Fur Fly???
I realized when I wrote my last post, that should firefighters have exchanged blows, that each and every firefighter here would cringe, at the loss for all of us in respect from the public, and the shame we have endowed upon ourselves, regardless of who did what. Respecting the fact that your knowledge was factual, we are of the same opinion on the insanity of brainless twits resorting to violence.
I am unsure of what constitutes a career department, for I think it is not the Department, but the group of people covered under the negotiated contract that matters. Just a blind guess, for I am not familiar with the prerequisites.
I also think you will agree that we both can be very proud of our FD positions, regardless if you are part time, or I am an IAFF member. Let me know? (Congrats on number 400!)
Dear Mr. Jam....
I like the alphabet game. By playing the "What if" game, let me carry this further. (Actual reality in this scenario as well)
Firefighter B was just told by Fire Department X that he has lost his job, as City Council has decided to let Firefighter A and other volunteers from Fire Department Z, to man the stations in the name of fiscal resposibility and as everyone has to be able to "do more with less".
Firefighter B belongs to the same Association as Firefighter A but in a different Fire Department, so has no recourse but to look for another job. Firefighter A is satisfied as he gets more part time income and can protect the community he lives in, plus he still has his full time job to make ends meet. The next time Firefighter A goes shopping he picks up some items for the food bank and Firefighter B, as bretheren look after each other that way.
(HINT: He purchased a can of Alphabet soup! )
This part of the Constitution has been debated, disputed and tried to have been enforced for many years, all over North America. I am sure it will be, long after I retire. I don't know all the answers, I just know fists aren't one of them, as a knuckle sandwich is hard to swallow.
Stay safe, all.
03-13-2002, 10:07 AM #280
- Join Date
- Jan 2000
- Austin, TX
First of all, don't take these comments to mean that I suuport what is happening on the union's end. I am a card-holding member of the IAFF, and also work part-time on my off days in a small village fire department. We, as members of the IAFF deicide on all issues of our International's Constitution through annual votes. And we, as members have allowed this resolution to pass last year. The IAFF's stance for years has been that they do not want their members working part-time on their off days in other union-departments. I totally support this stance, and have not worked one day in another union house part time (my part time department is all part-time with no union at all). And in response to the claim that there could be full time personnel there if there was no part time is not valid for this department since the budget would afford one full time FF if all the part timers we fired/quit/left/whatever. The latest resolution now stated that we shouldn't work in any fire department, in any capacity in our off days, (even as volunteers) regardless of the station's union affiliation (if any) because of the risk of being injured off duty from our career jobs. This is a choice that all union members must make for themselves if they want to run the risk of injury off duty, and potentially lose you pension. This should not become a IAFF issue since everyone's pension is different from state to state. I am not in any way complaining about the IAFF's stance.
My point being this; as I mentioned earlier, we vote on our issues as members, and we have voted this issue in place. If we don't agree with it, then we should try and reverse this. Don't waste your time bitching about the IAFF (especially if you don't attempt to vote on any issues) as some sort corporate monster that is dictating anything to us, because the IAFF is ALL OF US. Your brothers and sisters have made this decision for ALL OF US. The other option for the members is Prince George's county is to vote within their local to stop this, since the locals must enforce any resolutions from the International. The International isn't going to single any one person out unless their local reprimands them through the higher levels.
Take initiative and interest within your locals, and participate and make the union work for you, not against you. WE make our union what it is.
03-13-2002, 11:16 PM #281
Well I see where Local 36 just won a favorable arbitration ruling. I am sure glad that those "brothers" who were so quick to turn in their cards are now going to benefit from the hard work of their UNION
leadership. My heartfelt congratulations to the men and women of Local 36. I hope this means that these folks(the two hatters) might give some serious thought to respecting the IAFF. www.iaff.org
Last edited by MIKEYLIKESIT; 03-14-2002 at 12:08 AM.
03-14-2002, 07:00 PM #282
- Join Date
- Feb 1999
- Bowie, MD USA
Hey Mikey - It's hard to have respect for someone or an organization when you know the real motivation behind their actions. And the motives I have mentioned over and over again in these forums are not out of my imagination, they come strait from the "mouth of babes", themselves. I live with it, I see it every day. I know the history. Like I said many times before, I agree with a lot of their issues but the way they went about this issue is simply bull $hit!
L-1619 can blow all the smoke they want up the *****'s of the rest of the IAFF. But unless you are from here, know the history and even here their members talk while on the job, know and listen to the volunteers and see what they are like, then you don't know both sides and the whole story. And what the shame is, other IAFF brethren will take the word of another IAFF brethren without knowing or even caring what all the facts are. They will take the word of another IAFF brethren simply because they are all members of the IAFF. And don't take this the wrong way but that just makes them narrow minded.
I am not going to get into all the particulars again. They have all been said and quite frankly I'm getting tired of saying them. If these guy's were told the day they started on the job they shouldn't volunteer where there is another local and given the chance to make a choice then we would not be having this conversation now. And even the by law itself doesn't prohibit them from doing it, it simply says "DISCOURAGES IT." Some of these guy's have been doing it for 10…..15….. and 20 years, and it was never an issue until now.
I don't expect you to take my word on anything I say because I am just another volunteer. But through my posts, and backing a lot of the issues of L-1619, I think I have proven that I am not just another volunteer bashing the IAFF. This all started as retaliation and paybacks over one of their members ucking fup and getting caught by a volunteer Chief who carries an IAFF card. Now it has blown into not only a local issue and not even a national issue, but it is now an international issue involving everyone from the local politicians all the way to the halls of the United States Congress. And if things go as planned, soon to the President of the United States.
Now don't this look real good for the fire service? All over some smuck getting his feelings and pride hurt! For me that’s nuff said on this subject.
On a more cheerful note, the weather here in DC today was a balmy 65. Tomorrow will be 70 and nothing but sun, sun, sun. Spring is in the air, the winter time blues are melting away and life is looking good.
Peace my friend!
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