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  1. #241
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    Thumbs up Sounds like a weaner to me

    Tillerman Ė Thanks for the invite. Thatís a good night, wifeís out and I donít have anything else to do. Itís on the calendar!
    Peace


  2. #242
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    Thumbs up Interesting Reading!

    I got this from another thread, it appears that the Resolution 43 issue may have hit the floor of the House of Representatives already.

    This is an email I received about the IAFF and the volunteer issue. I thought people would like to read.

    (House of Representatives - February 27, 2002)

    The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mrs. BIGGERT). Under a previous order of the
    House, the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. WELDON) is recognized for 5 minutes.

    Mr. WELDON of Pennsylvania. Madam Speaker, I reluctantly rise to discuss an issue that troubles me greatly. For the past 16 years that I have served in this body I have tried to focus attention on the plight of the Nation's fire and emergency service providers.

    Across this country, we have fought for their interests. We have fought for the career and volunteer firefighters in 32,000 departments. We organized the largest caucus in the Congress. We have an annual dinner each April which brings all the focus together. We have had President Clinton, former President Bush and all of
    our major party leaders come together to support them.

    As we saw in the Washington Post 2 days ago, the good will we have developed is currently being undone by a resolution passed by the International Association of Fire Fighters, good friends of mine, supporters of mine, that tells their membership they can no longer volunteer in the course of serving the communities where they live. So a firefighter in the District of Columbia who lives in suburban
    Maryland or Virginia is no longer allowed on his own free time to serve the communities where he lives. If he wants to do that, he must give up his union card.

    Madam Speaker, this is like saying that teachers, and I was a teacher for 7 years, should withdraw from the teacher's association if they want to tutor poor kids on weekends or after school, or even teach Sunday school. It is like telling doctors that they should no longer serve in clinics on their own time or be dismissed from the AMA. It is like telling professional athletes they should no longer play in
    charity games, raising money for good causes, or coach our youth teams. It is like telling lawyers that they should not belong to the American Bar Association if they do pro bono work.

    Madam Speaker, one of the leaders, a paid IAFF leader and a member of the Rockville City Volunteer Fire Department, has estimated that 70 percent of all career firefighters volunteer in the communities where they live. The IAFF has now come out and said they can no longer do that.I respectfully request our friends in the IAFF to reconsider this decision.

    We will continue to support firefighters, career and volunteer.We will continue to fight for more funding to provide even for paid personnel where there are shortages. But this kind of a policy drives a wedge between career and volunteer fire and EMS people that is just, I think, unthinkable.

    In fact, one of the leaders of the IAFF said it well: ``Many of the smaller communities rely solely on volunteer stations and they stand to lose a lot. This is all about men and women who really just love being a firefighter. Volunteering on their days off, whether in their own county or nearby, keeps their skills fresh. This just unnecessarily drives a wedge between the careers and the volunteers, and that eventually hurts the public.''

    Madam Speaker, I was up at the World Trade Center 2 days after the disaster, and I saw thousands of firefighters from around the country working together with the New York City career firefighters. Does this mean that those career firefighters from other departments that went to New York City would lose their union cards if this were enforced because they were volunteering to help their brother firefighters in time of need?

    I plead with my friends in the IAFF, for the sake of your own members, change this policy, so that we all can work together for the good of America's domestic defenders.

    END

  3. #243
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    Thumbs up

    Concerning the above post, you can remove the may have from the post. I called the Congressman's office today and they confirmed that the speech was made. I think I'll move to PA just to vote for him!
    Peace

  4. #244
    MembersZone Subscriber swrr88's Avatar
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    Here it goes!

    Just like a bunch of people here have been saying...

    This is the one place in the nation where this fight could turn into something big....Congress' Backyard.

    Does the PG local think that the lawmakers don't read the paper or watch the news?

    The congress is full of lawmakers eager to strike a blow to unions. They have killed collective bargaining. They want to stop unions from spending member money on canidates they don't support (I would actually like that). Now they have their new target.

    Is there a better fight? "Big Bad Union stopping volunteers"

    They could block legislation or create legislation all in the name of defending volunteerism.

    This is specifically what I was talking about when I stated that the union needs to start thinking long term about issues such as this one.

    I read that Department of Labor opinion that states it doesn't think volunteering in the same county where you work requires overtime if its not forced.

    That's just one thing that could change dramatically if lawmakers feel they have the "good fight" on their side.

    Again, with the President asking everyone to volunteer...there couldn't be a worse time for this issue.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  5. #245
    MembersZone Subscriber swrr88's Avatar
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    I looked up Rep. Weldon from Pa.

    Rep.Curt Weldon is the congressman for the 7th District of Pa. He is the FOUNDER of the Congressional Fire Service Institute.

    As a press statement says, "Weldon, a former fire chief and founder of the Congressional Fire Services Institute and the Congressional Fire Services Caucus, has been the most outspoken and knowledgeable member of Congress on fire issues"

    Congressman Weldon also was involved in inserting language that boosted Fire Grant money to 1 billion dollars in the 2002 budget.


    I guess he may know a thing or two about the business. Not a light weight.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  6. #246
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    I have read the post's on this thread with some interest. I am not for or against either side because I am 600 miles away and I don't know the politics involved. However in these times of volatile politics, slumping economy, I hope that with the recent congressional concerns we don't step on our d**** and the International's reputation tarnished as anti-volunteer. The way the press is, they will not portray the real issues at hand, rather portray it as beating up on the goodwilled citizens who generously give their spare time. In turn the citizenry might turn against the professionals who protect their lives and property when no one else is around to do it.
    I don't want to see union brothers raked over the coals needlessly so I hope there can be a compromise to make this situation quiet down out of the public eye. With the anti-labor sentiment strong we must do what we can to uphold our image as dedicated professionals who do this for a living and not as a hobby or part-time job.
    Proud Member IAFF Local 2334 No.Providence Fire Dept.

  7. #247
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    Thumbs down To late to back out gracefully!

    PuffyNPFD - I got this from another thread in another forum. A member of an IAFF local wrote it,
    Congressman Weldon is Chairman of the Congressional Fire Service Caucus, the largest and most powerful bipartisan caucus in the Senate and the House.
    At this time when the attention of the nation and our elected officials is turned toward our nations firefighters, the reckless and selfish actions of PG Firefighters Local 1619 is poised to undo all the progress and advancement that we as a profession and avocation have made in the past 20 years. Thanks Tom, your parents must be so proud. (Tom being Tom McEachin, President L-1619.)


    I hope that with the recent congressional concerns we don't step on our d**** and the International's reputation tarnished as anti-volunteer.

    I don't want to see union brothers raked over the coals needlessly so I hope there can be a compromise to make this situation quiet down out of the public eye.

    I think it's too late for both statements. As I wrote before, "I believe that L-1619 has started rolling a snowball that they donít know how to stop and they will drag down and blacken the eye of any other local that wants to jump on board with them." And I would also add the IAFF itself since it found it necessary to let 1619 pursue this attack.
    I believe L-1619 could have stopped this before it snowballed into what it is going to be. But the arrogant, egotistical, and self-righteous attitudes of these people blinded them from seeing past the noses on their faces.

    I am not for or against either side because I am 600 miles away and I don't know the politics involved.

    Let me give you a real brief run down on what's going on in PG. Now granted, you have to take this for what it's worth coming from a volunteer. My opinions may be biased but if I think you are right, I will tell you your right. Also, if I think your wrong same thing. I happen to agree with a lot of the issues L-1619 has, but instead of coming to the volunteers and trying to work them out, their tactic is always to attack the volunteers.
    L-1619 does not like volunteers. Some of the career people from other locals that L-1619 is bringing up on charges are in positions of authority and L-1619 doesn't like being given orders from a volunteer. They feel they are above taking orders from a volunteer, no matter what their qualifications are.
    This didn't have to go the way it did. But L-1619 is not interested in working out differences, their only answer is to just get rid of the volunteers.

    With the anti-labor sentiment strong we must do what we can to uphold our image as dedicated professionals who do this for a living and not as a hobby or part-time job.

    Maybe I am reading this statement wrong, but are you saying that people who do this as volunteers, or as you say, as a hobby or part-time are not professional?
    I was a career firefighter for 8 years but chose a different path, so since I continued to volunteer what does that make me? For the 8 years I did it as a career person I was a professional, and when I left I reverted to a lesser form of just someone who does it for a hobby?
    Do the career people revert to a lesser form when they are volunteering on their own time, and revert back to being a professional when they go back to work?

    As always, these are only my humbled opinions.
    Peace
    Last edited by Jam1902; 03-01-2002 at 12:02 AM.

  8. #248
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    JAM 1902, just to let you know that I am not anti volunteer, I am one myself in another town other than mine that is ALL VOLUNTEER. When I made the reference to hobby or pt job I wasn't necessarily talking about vollys. I have guys I work with who view the job as just this. The benefits, schedule etc. The situation down there is a real tough one because on one hand the IAFF locals have every right to expunge the outside paid guys from their system, however when you do this you might lose a lot of experienced personnel. Catch 22! When I am in the volly house I am just a FF I take orders do what I am told to do within reason. Because I get a paycheck doesn't make me better than any of the other guys there. I am a volly in a town with no paid, union FF's. We do run mutual aid to cities and towns with paid, union FF's but when the call comes in for MA to one of them I do not go. It is admirable that union FF's want to give their time to volly, however when it stirs S*** it is time to re-evaluate the system. I know that the volly tradition runs deep in this part of the country but when there is union fighting union it isn't healthy. I hope this gets resolved in the quietest most civil manor possible for the good of both sides.

  9. #249
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    THE ONLY FIREFIGHTERS THAT ARE STEPPING ON THEIR D***S ARE THE ONES THAT CONTINUE TO VOLUNTEER ON UNION DEPARTMENTS WHEN THEY BELONG TO THE IAFF. In life we have choices to make. This is one of them.

  10. #250
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    Default Still making waves

    Again, this is only going to give the IAFF locals ďBad PressĒ. Not worth the fight, even though I feel it would make our jobs easier..

    I think we should take Tillerman1664 up on his offer for drinks @ Rock Bottom. You guys would be amazed if you knew how much money this guy raises for the burned children in this area. You would find it kind of ironic if you knew his real name.

    Tillerman1664, any chance you will be auctioning off your prized ďEmergency ď autograph??

    If you would like to talk to Mr. Weldon, he will be at the Annual CFSI dinner on April 18th in D.C., see you there.

    Stay Safe!!!
    FTM/PTB

  11. #251
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    Thumbs down The facts and nothing but the facts!

    Puffy - No offense taken!

    Mikey - FYI, PG is not a career department, it is a volunteer department supplemented by career staff. With the exception of 2 stations, the rest of the stations are separate, volunteer owned and operated corporations. The volunteers own 80 to 90% of the apparatus, not the career people. Just thought I'd clear that up!
    Silly me, and here I thought L-1619 had cornered the market on arrogance, ego and self-righteousness! Thanks for setting me strait!
    Peace

  12. #252
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Jam..Does PG County have Union firefighters? Do you have Union Firefighters from other jurisdictions voulunteering there? You can call me self righteous all you want, that isnt going to change the fact that these two-hatters are in violation of IAFF policy. "Silly you"

  13. #253
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    Thumbs down

    I have posted on this topic in other threads but here goes again. As I read the first page posts in this thread, it seems others have my same feeling.... BU**-SH**... The IAFF needs to mind their own business and discontinue interfering with volunteer departments.

    I am a former union member (see other post) and that left a bad taste in my mouth for unions. However, I am not anti-union at all. I feel it is a great thing and some of the things they do is great....but...NOT this time. My girlfriend is the sec/treas of her union here in fla and I go with them to support union functions and activities. But I find the Union here is much much different that in other areas. The members of her local know I am retired and they also know I am now volunteering here....but they dont hassle me. They seem to focus here on employee benefits and wages and working conditions as opposed to spending their time trying to see how they can screw with volunteers.

    This is a decision that was made based on whining from union members that have a problem with volunteering or who forgot where they started. It is another attempt to choke out the volunteer departments that have proudly served their communities for years. This is not an issue about union members volunteering.....it is an issue where the IAFF is attempting to force out all volunteers. It is obvious, especially in PG County since the career staff and the volunteers dont get along even if the volunteers are NOT union members.

    I am with the post who says, "I do one for pay and the other for satisfaction." I have been volunteering since I was 13 and had it not been for that, I would not have had a career job.

    The IAFF is wrong on this one and they have damaged the public view of the Service.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  14. #254
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    ATTENTION all worrywarts. I have news for you . Outside of these forums and maybe Maryland, the general public dosent give a rats *** about this issue. It hasnt made the news here. In the big scheme of things IT IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE PUBLICS OPINION OF THE FIRE SERVICE ONE IOTA. So huff and puff and worry all you want over the "black eye" that the IAFF is supposedly casting over the fire service...It just isnt true. The public wants the red thing showing up at their door when they need it. They really dont care how it gets there.
    Last edited by MIKEYLIKESIT; 03-01-2002 at 06:01 PM.

  15. #255
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    Originally posted by captstanm1
    The IAFF needs to mind their own business and discontinue interfering with volunteer departments.
    Protecting the membership is their job. Apparently the PG Local 1619 has issue with members from other IAFF Locals. It's union business to take care of those issues. Hmmm, did you ever think the volunteer departments may be screwing with the career guys? Or didn't you think?

    Do I care what they do on their own time? HECK NO! However, I do care if it ADVERSELY AFFECTS the livelihood of fellow IAFF members. Go back and read the posts written by myself and my coworkers. We give NUMEROUS examples of how some IAFF members are doing just that on their "own time". That is an issue the IAFF is, and must, address. That is the job of the IAFF... TO PROTECT MEMBERS CAREERS!

    Originally posted by captstanm1
    But I find the Union here is much different that in other areas. The members of her local know I am retired and they also know I am now volunteering here....but they dont hassle me. They seem to focus here on employee benefits and wages and working conditions as opposed to spending their time trying to see how they can screw with volunteers.
    What do you base this "difference" on. Do you have any idea what other issues Local 1619 has on their plate? Ever stop to think that MAYBE they are doing all those things and trying to correct another issue? Maybe Resolution 43 was needed to help them get the issue corrected? Or didn't you think?

    Originally posted by captstanm1
    This is a decision that was made based on whining from union members that have a problem with volunteering or who forgot where they started. It is another attempt to choke out the volunteer departments that have proudly served their communities for years. This is not an issue about union members volunteering.....it is an issue where the IAFF is attempting to force out all volunteers. It is obvious, especially in PG County since the career staff and the volunteers dont get along even if the volunteers are NOT union members.
    "Choke out the Volunteer system"? "This is not about union members volunteering"??? I am amazed that you can see so well what goes on "up north" from way "down south". Maybe if you were up here in our systems you would have a different outlook. You stated some guys seem to "Forget where they came from". Ever stop to think that maybe they didn't forget where they started but realize where they are now? Maybe the members from other Local's are a problem for them? Maybe Local 1619 is trying to correct some problems the guys from other Locals are causing? Ever think about that? Or didn't you think?

    Originally posted by captstanm1
    The IAFF is wrong on this one and they have damaged the public view of the Service.
    The public doesn't care as long as the fire truck shows up. There are so many safeguards in place it is rare they ever get the idea there is a problem. Ever wonder what would happen if the public really knew the TRUTH? Failures to respond, units understaffed, a single pull system because they don't have the staffing to put the units on the street. Who would go for that?

    Have you ever stopped to think the maybe, just MAYBE there is a problem up here with paid guys "two hatting"? Maybe it is interfering with peoples livelihoods? Or didn't you think that far into it?

    Maybe you should talk with the President of the Local your wife is a member. Have him actually look into the issue and contact the Presidents of Local 1619, 1664, 36 and the President's of Howard County and Fairfax County's Locals (sorry, I don't know their numbers) Then talk with him after he does some background work and see what he thinks.

    Stay safe until we chat again!
    Last edited by Chopper Lover; 03-01-2002 at 07:55 PM.
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  16. #256
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    Thumbs down Congressional Speech...

    These are politicians we are talking about. I bet, if any of you look deep inside yourselves, you will agree you don't trust any of them any farther than you can throw the Washington Monument!

    Can you say...

    Political Grandstanding!!!


    (I love these smiley's)
    Last edited by Chopper Lover; 03-01-2002 at 07:56 PM.
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  17. #257
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    Oh my God!!!!

    I can not believe that people here are still saying that this isn't going to become a public mess!!!!

    Ok...Did you guys miss the fact that a congressman from Pa. made a speech about it on the house floor????? Did you not read the Washington Post article???? Do you not realize that the Washington Post is not only read but referred to across the entire country????? Do you not realize how important Congressman Weldon is to Fire Service Legislation and Policy????

    Hey, Mike...Jane Doe in the Windy City doesn't know about the fight But YOUR CONGRESSMAN DOES and that's the problem.

    National policy is set by the people who live part time in the nation's capitol...the congressmen/women. They obviously know what's going on because that's why Rep.Weldon made a speech on the floor. They'll remember it when the IAFF comes a knocking. When they come looking for support. When they come looking for money.

    I promise you there will be legislation resulting from this. It may deal with it directly or indirectly but there will be a Bill proposed.

    Its been said here so many times, but here it goes again....

    Organized Labor is not as popular as it used to be. The public doesn't automatically support unions. The members don't automatically support their unions. The AFL-CIO is millions short of political money for the coming elections.

    So, as a politician you have a union fighting something that to everyone else is something good and American. A union that isn't coming to you with the same amount of money as before. A union whose own members are fighting among themselves PUBLICALLY.

    Its a little easier to tell them to walk this year because you can get stronger support elsewhere....remember-FIREFIGHTERS are America's heroes now...Not the IAFF. He can wrap himself around tons of VOLUNTEER firefighters just as easily as he can union ones.

    Can you imagine on the campaign trail talking about how you were endorsed by the IAFF, and some reporter smirks and asks "is that the same union that is against volunteering ?" "I thought that's what we were asked to do?"

    This is stupid. Its a blackeye on the union with nothing to show for it but more fighting. There are so many important issues that would get universal support and good PR for the entire organization. This is a distraction. Congressman Weldon wasn't taking his time to talk about standards, funding, staffing. He was talking about this mess.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  18. #258
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    Congressmen Weldon is a good man. I happen to disagree with him on this one. Do you truly believe that with all the news of the day there is going to be a nationwide uproar over resoulution 43? Gimme a break SWR. All politics are local and I happen to know for a fact that the republican that is my congressman and the democrat that represents the town where I work BOTH enjoy the support they receive from our State Association which is affiliated with the IAFF. Curt Weldon is a former volunteer fire chief. He represents an area with many volunteer fire departments. He is doing what he thinks is best. We live in a great country where we can have disagreements. Local 1619 is doing what it thinks is best. Jane Doe from the Windy City may very well not know or care about any of this. She is the one paying my salary. NOT a congressman from Pennsylvania.

  19. #259
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    Thumbs up Living in a FREE Country is great!

    Mikey - Yes PG has union firefighters, they have been here for over 30 years. Some of the two hatters as you call them have been here for 10Ö..15Ö..20, or more years. It was OK for 25 years but now all of a sudden its not. I don't care how long it's been on the books, it all started a few years ago when L-1619 lost on trying to retaliate against a volunteer who works for DC and is a volunteer chief in PG for doing his job, period. Why should these people have to give up what they have been earning and working towards, for the years they put in as volunteers? And yes we are talking monetary loss. If you would like to see what this loss would be you can check out a summary of the PG volunteers LOSAP program on the mrvfd.org web page.

    Maybe Local 1619 is trying to correct some problems the guys from other Locals are causing?
    Fact, the only problem is that the members from L-1619 do not believe they should have to take orders from a volunteer. Yes they have other issues but as I said many, many times, I agree with a lot of them and they are nothing that can't be worked out by working together. But the numero uno, number one, top of the list problem that is driving L-1619 in their quest is "they don't feel they should have to take orders from a volunteer." They could give a sh** if the person wrote the book on firefighting and could, as the old saying goes, put out the fires of purgatory with a water pistol. They just don't think they should have to.

    Maybe it is interfering with peoples livelihoods?
    And
    Do I care what they do on their own time? HECK NO! However, I do care if it ADVERSELY AFFECTS the livelihood of fellow IAFF members.
    No one has still been able to tell me how this affects their livelihoods! The only argument I can possibly think of, and the only one I've heard mentioned is that a volunteer may take away your overtime. Yes, having a volunteer may keep an IAFF member from working overtime but when you took your IAFF job, did you do it because it had a guarantee of overtime? Unless you were guaranteed overtime and a volunteer prevents you from getting it you have no bitch!
    And please, lest' s stop being hypocritical about this livelihood thing. Because we go back to the same old thing that has been beat to death, there is no difference when an IAFF member gets off work from the job and goes out to do their plumbing, carpentering, chimney sweeping, electricaling etc etc etc.
    The only livelihood affected may be the smuck on the street that may not be able to be hired. Or would you rather have someone backing you up on the line that had to have the entrance exam lowered and the rest of the requirements lowered in order to get the job? And only takes it because it's going to give them a paycheck but really doesn't give a sh** about the job. Because that's what's being hired around here now, and that's if they can get anyone to take the test. But thatís another story for another thread, I think you get my drift!

    Maybe you should talk with the President of the Local your wife is a member. Have him actually look into the issue and contact the Presidents of Local 1619, 1664, 36 and the President's of Howard County and Fairfax County's Locals (sorry, I don't know their numbers) Then talk with him after he does some background work and see what he thinks.
    Don't stop there. Shouldn't you talk to both sides to get the whole story and not just one side? There are always two sides to every story!

    These are politicians we are talking about. I bet, if any of you look deep inside yourselves, you will agree you don't trust any of them any farther than you can throw the Washington Monument!
    Hey I agree with you 110%. So these are the people you are going to count on to replace the volunteers you are trying to force to quit? HELLO!
    I don't know how local governments work outside of PG, but I think I know the one in PG well enough to know that the answer to that question is WRONG!
    Chopper hit the nail on the head, " There are so many safeguards in place it is rare they ever get the idea there is a problem." That goes for the politicians to. Even when you prove to them something is wrong they will deny you, especially if it's going to cost them some of the almighty $$$$$$!

    Congressmen Weldon is a good man. I happen to disagree with him on this one.
    BINGO!!! Everyone that has a side on this or any other issue is basically a good person, or at least I hope they are. But we can all agree to disagree. I can tell my side and try to persuade you to come with over with me, and you can do the same to me. In the end there will be a winner and a loser to this issue if you want to caricaturize it that way. But rest assured, we will pick up and move on to the next issue and start all over again.
    I will leave you with an excerpt from the good Congressman's speech because I believe I can't say it any better. Because I think the ultimate losers are going to be the people we are supposed to be here for. The ones who could give a damn whether the person pulling them out of their blazing house is a career person or a volunteer, just as long as their getting pulled out.

    "Madam Speaker, this is like saying that teachers, and I was a teacher for 7 years, should withdraw from the teacher's association if they want to tutor poor kids on weekends or after school, or even teach Sunday school. It is like telling doctors that they should no longer serve in clinics on their own time or be dismissed from the AMA. It is like telling professional athletes they should no longer play in charity games, raising money for good causes, or coach our youth teams. It is like telling lawyers that they should not belong to the American Bar Association if they do pro bono work.
    Peace, keep the faith and stay safe!
    Last edited by Jam1902; 03-02-2002 at 11:27 AM.

  20. #260
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    Feb 2002
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    Montgomery County, Maryland Local 1664
    Posts
    72

    Default Jams....

    You state so many "facts" yet they are all from your viewpoint (we have discussed that all before so no need to go farther). The problem is greater than what you see from behind the desk of "President Jams, Mt. Rainier VFD"

    You stated "No one has still been able to tell me how this affects their livelihoods!"

    Again I request you go back and read past page 9 of this thread. Look at my posts specifically. I point out a factual example of where two shifts of personnel were removed from a station that is responsible for "picking up my line". Some of volunteers that took the place of the career guys are DC Local 36 members.

    Did it affect my livelihood? Not directly, but only because I am not assigned to that station. It could have been me, I got lucky. Did it affect my livelihood indirectly, damn right it did! Stat's prove they can't be depended on to get out. I guess it's OK they pulled the career guys out so some could have a "hobby". It's only my life and the life of my coworkers at stake. Small price to pay for someone to have a hobby!

    Jams, please answer me this. Is PG County's fire protection going to fold if IAFF members choose the Local over Volunteering?
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