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  1. #1
    Senior Member dmsmith's Avatar
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    Unhappy Prince Georges Co: Making a Choice

    Can't we all just get along?

    What do you think about the IAFF in Prince Georges Co saying tear up your union cards if you're going to be a volunteer also?
    Guinness....a meal in a can!
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  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber pres41's Avatar
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    Default PG Co Union

    It's a shame the Union has to stoop that low to increase it's membership, If the Union's position is to help the welfare of the public then the Union Local forgot that one with this tactic. The Volunteers of PG Co help the public in more ways than just firefighting. And I bet most of the Union Members came from the volunteers in the first place
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Smoke286's Avatar
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    Default

    Seems perfectly sensible to me, you cannot serve to masters, as it were.

  4. #4
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    Default

    I don't serve the union, it serves me. I serve the citizens, one place for pay, another for satisfaction. If the union kicks me out, so be it. I was a volunteer prior to being hired. Ever heard of loyalty, honor, or service?

  5. #5
    Forum Member thefyreman's Avatar
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    Thumbs down typical

    Typical IAFF tactics - wouldn't want their members involved in something that is a great community service (volunteer fire departments) 'cause it might mean fewer career positions would be needed - I wonder, did they say no volunteering anywhere or not in PG county? I know that some departments (like Montgomery County for instance) don't have a problem with their employees volunteering as long as it's not in their jurisdiction.

    I wonder if any other unions have that same mentality - that the union members are forbidden to donate their time to a community program by doing what they get paid for? For instance, I don't know if woodworkers/cabinet makers have a union or not, but I wonder if they did, would their union prohibit them from building furniture for family members or the church or the town hall on their own time? How can the union dictate what a person does on their own time?
    - Remember our brothers in FDNY -

  6. #6
    Forum Member DrInferno's Avatar
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    Default

    We have to have a union card here to work. If you aren't a member in good standing you don't have a job. So for me the choice would be an obvious one. As for the guys who are being asked to leave don't they think they are biting the hand that feeds them?

  7. #7
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    Default

    Here we go again! From what I have been told the IAFF has specific rules against firefighters being volunteers. I would hope that this rule would change. In my small community there is no chance of having the funding to provide a fulltime position for anyone. The backbone of our department are the professional firefighters who show up and take care of the business. I am not certain about anywhere else but in Ohio most of the fulltimers came from the volunteer ranks. They have also trained and mentored the likes of me (so now you know who to blame) and many others who were interested in becoming firefighters. In my humble opinion, the IAFF should be like our employers and not tell us what to do on our off hours. I do not tell anyone what to do when they are not on duty, please give me the same courtesy.
    -Doing it for God and my citizens.
    Firefighter/NREMT-B/Hazmat Tech
    To the Lord Jesus Christ: Thanks for providing a career where we can make a difference.

  8. #8
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    Default

    And to think, someone said on these here boards less than a month ago that non-right to work states were free...

    The joys of having a right to work!
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

  9. #9
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Question

    I have a question for the IAFF members. Does this apply to any non-union fire department or is this strictly for "Volunteer" fire departments? The reason I ask is, we are a paid-on-call department. We respond from our homes, but we are also compensated a reasonable wage. Would these rules apply to an IAFF member who was also on our department?

  10. #10
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    Default

    You know the old saying be careful what you ask for. If 200 guys turn in their cards, does the Union still speak for the fire department? With 50% volly, 200 non-union and the ballance Union who becomes the power base?

    The whole thing is very American though. Fighting among ourselves. The politicians will exploit the crap out of it.

    I think if I was the 200, I'd bring in the Teamsters ala Boulder City. With choice is power. You know, the IAFF guys get time and a half for overtime, you offer government 1.25 for overtime but with an assurance all Teamsters will get 3 days a month. Starve the other Union guys out, or make their members jump ships. Competition, what a concept.

    Can anyone name the fire deparment with 7 unions?

  11. #11
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    Default

    Well when I read the story I thought it was absolutly rediculous, I will probably be in the IAFF in a few years and hope Texas doesn't get like that. I know personally one of the people I have learned the most from over the years is a paid IAFF guy that volunteers in my fire department. On a side not, I guess we can quite fighting fcvfd I finally agree with you on a topic.

  12. #12
    Forum Member BucksEng91's Avatar
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    Wink

    Mongo -

    It sure does make you shake your head, right? Yeah, you're free to do what you want...as long as it corresponds with what the union wants.

    More and more abridgements of freedom, and misplaced loyalties. I liked what one of the posters said to the effect that the union serves him, not the other way around.

    I wonder if our NO RIGHT TO WORK friends will show up on this thread?
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  13. #13
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    Default

    I know that if our volunteers that are career firefighters elsewhere were forced to stop volunteering we would lose over half of our staffing and alot of expiriance. It is too bad the union feels this way, i dont think that they are making the right decision there, i hope that they can see that in the future, if not sooner.

    It is funny most career firefighters got thier start in a volunteer FD, so in a sense the union will be biting the hand that feeds them, in a training prior to appointment sense.

    If the union wasnt like this they may have more members because volunteers may see career firefighters more as a benefit then a way to push volunteers out.

    Definatly not a good example to set for its union members

  14. #14
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default

    I wouldnt want to dissapoint you Bucks... I myself believe too much fire department is unhealthy. But alas, that is only my opinion.If one wants to run fire calls on their day off fine.From my limited knowledge of the subject, it seems that there have been problems between the volunteers and career guys for years in PG County.If those members want to change IAFF policy, by all means bring it out at the convention.It is a democratic process.if you want to be a volunteer then elect those local officers that will support your position. That is what is all about isnt it? I may or may not have voted for Bush, but he is still my president.This will be interesting to follow, because there are many IAFF members who act as volunteers all over the U.S.

  15. #15
    Forum Member BucksEng91's Avatar
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    Default

    High five, MIKEY. I agree. But what do you think about the implications for "right to work"?

    When did membership in a union make you subject to their dictates OUTSIDE of work hours? What's next?
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  16. #16
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    Question QUESTION?

    Is a plumber, who belongs to the local, allowed to flush his toilet
    while he isn't working?

    High Five DCFF.....

  17. #17
    Forum Member DaFAO's Avatar
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    Default something to consider?

    Just food for thought....
    I know unions in general, not just the IAFF, look out for their own. It's what they're designed for. But I wonder if 1619 considered:

    Prince George's County, or a good chunk of it as I understand, is poor. Very little money exists in the government there. If 1619's goal was to create more union jobs by telling card members they can't volunteer, aren't they shooting themselves in the foot? Allow me to explain...

    Lets say, for argument's sake, that theres a fire in 33's area, an all volunteer station, though most are union members in other jurisdictions, including the 'A' chief. 1619 cant expect the county to just yank the millions it would need to sufficiently staff the stations 24/7 (you the man, Brooks) out of it's @$$. It stands to reason that while the county is trying to come up with funding and training to man these newly created vacancies, a lot of stations would be failing after the sun goes down. How long will the general public of the county sit and do nothing? By doing this, isnt 1619 picking a fight with the county, its government, its citizens, and fellow locals? I thought we were all brethern, regardless if the says 1619, 36, 1664, 2000, or VFD....Im also an IAFF member, but I've gotta say they doinked this one. The public safety of a community shouldn't be left to greed...Besides, the county is already understaffed so much even with a combination setup that I really think there's room for both to exist....

  18. #18
    Forum Member thefyreman's Avatar
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    Exclamation ...and in Montgomery County...

    Looks like the pendulum is swinging back the other way in PG's neighbor to the west...

    From www.gazette.net:Career Firefighters Could be Cleared to Volunteer Again

    by Theodore Kim and Manju Subramanya
    Staff Writers


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Feb. 6, 2002
    A recent labor opinion could pave the way for career firefighters to once again volunteer in their spare time at the county's fire stations without triggering overtime pay.

    Career firefighters have been banned since 1994 from "two-hatting" -- working for pay and then volunteering after hours at county fire stations -- after the U.S. Department of Labor ruled that the county had to pay overtime for their volunteer work. The county's paid firefighters now work alongside unpaid volunteers in 19 fire departments across the county.

    But in a Nov. 27 opinion to the Burtonsville Volunteer Fire Department, a federal labor official has concluded that career firefighters need not be paid overtime for time spent as volunteers. The Burtonsville station asked the Labor Department to review the county's ban.

    The county is reviewing the letter and has asked the Labor Department for a more definitive opinion...

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    ...The article goes on to say the County Executives office has some questions about the ruling, but they are considering it... here's the link:

    http://www.gazette.net/200206/montgo...y/90421-1.html (sure hope that works)
    - Remember our brothers in FDNY -

  19. #19
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default

    Coming back to your job for less money. Makes sense to me. When many suburban Chicago area Fire Depts. went to combination and or career, there was a serious problem with members being forced to answer calls off duty and work part-time shifts for part time pay. When you join a union, you agree to abide by their rules. If you dont like the rules, change them or dont join. Its pretty simple. What exactly are "TYPICAL IAFF TACTICS" fyre? Tactics such as spearheading a massive relief effort for fallen FDNY members families? Like it or not bud, the 250,000 members of The IAFF protect 80% percent of the population of the U.S.
    Last edited by MIKEYLIKESIT; 02-08-2002 at 12:22 PM.

  20. #20
    Junior Member TILLERMAN-1664's Avatar
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    Default Re: ...and in Montgomery County...

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by thefyreman
    [B]Looks like the pendulum is swinging back the other way in PG's neighbor to the west...

    First of all, Montgomery County will only lose approx. 50 of it's 900 Union Members if this passes. Second of all, the majority of Burtonsville's membership, including the fire chief, are card carrying members of DC's local. Third, you posted earlier that Montgomery County doesn't have this problem. This is not correct.

    First, let me pull the wool from everyone's eyes. The combination system of volunteer and career people in the metropolitan area, specifically PG and MC is not your typical "I can't get along with you, you can't get along with me" saga. It is an entire different can of worms here. We're talking assaults, fist fights, destruction of property, theft and the list goes on and on. Amongst "BROTHERS"? I will be the first to say there are bad apples in both baskets.

    Now for some clarification on resolution 49. We don't care if you volunteer or belong to the union. Pick a basket to put all your eggs in. No this isn't about someone being paid in MC or DC or PG and volunteering in Ugamachooga, WV where there are no paid positions. We just don't want you to be part of the union if your going to volunteer where there are union brothers and sisters. It comes down to this. I carry a card. I belong to a proud BROTHERHOOD. Why should I have to come to work and be attacked, threatened, slandered and mistreated (and don't tell me it doesn't happen; I live it everyday) by a card carrying brother of the same organization and next week he wants me to sit at negotion tables with him to help him achieve what he wants in his jursdiction?
    "VERY PROUD" Union member of the I.A.F.F. as well as my local 1664.
    Notice this is my CAREER not my hobby. Help a burned child. Get involed...not sure how just ask. Marshall
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