1. #1
    John_Ford
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    Talking APN/ Navy Nozzle

    I'm dating myself but when I started this gig, we used a skid load of 1 1/2" with two navy nozzles on top. We had OBA's on the second rig which was a '56 Ward Fireball and a grand total of two scott 2's with a Sling PAC for the officer on the first out. Any of you guys still use APN's? Applicator, Foam tube, and a bayonet attachment. The trash line on the engines are still Navy's.
    Last edited by John_Ford; 02-22-2002 at 05:57 PM.

  2. #2
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    My God, I figured I was the only one around that can remember using the OBA's and Navy nozzles. I remember getting my rear ripped because I used one of the OBA's. After all, those canisters were expensive. Those were the "good ol' days", where you actually got to breath/taste some smoke, hang your head out of the second floor and hurl! Now, THAT was firefighting.

    My old department wouldn't buy the canisters with the "candles" to start the process, so we had to get them working the old fashioned way. Man, what a pain, but they worked. Really high tech stuff at one time, and boy could they take a beating.

    The old Navy nozzles weren't a bad nozzle. They were heavy and needed some work on the fog, but otherwise were pretty versatile. All in all a good nozzle, at least in concept. In fact, I saw them listed in a catalogue within the last week or so. That really surprised me. I started talking with my crew about them, and they looked at me with a look of total confusion.

    Akron has a nozzle out that kind of follows the same principle by providing a fog nozzle and a true solid stream. I'm kind of interested if anyone is using them, and what they think of them. You have to open and shut the fog off by twisting the end of the nozzle like a garden hoze. I'm not real crazy about that. The bail opens the solid bore.

    As for your question, nope, we don't use them. I do feel better though, that I'm not the Last of the Mohicans!
    Steve Gallagher
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    John_Ford I have a old navy nozzle in my garage, my department stopped using them in the late 70's. Frankly I was supprised one was still hanging around the department after all these years. Noone was interested so I got it. I am going to put it on a 1956 open cab LaFrance pumper I own after some TLC. I also saw a article in Fire/Rescue News about a department that had mounted a nozzle on the front bumper tray ready to go. So some departments are still using them. I have also seen old black and white pictures with our firemen wearing OBA's none of them are around now. I bet that was the only time they were ever used.

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    Thumbs up

    We have one Navy Nozzle on each rig with a pump, pre-connected on the 1.75" trash line. We use them as primary attack lines for vehicle fires (nothing works better or more easily with less water on cars) and for other miscellaneous uses.

    Actually, we're looking to buy another one used to put on the trash line of our new quad, if someone out there is looking to sell.

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    The Navy or Rockwood nozzle remains my department's "Utility" nozzle coupled with a 1.5" line


    One thing is not all "Navy" nozzles are alike. The "classic" navy nozzle has a 60* (wide) fog pattern with a flow of 65gpm fog or solid bore. The one pictured above has a different spud that produces a 65gpm 30* (narrow) fog with a solid bore that produces 95gpm. We often use it with a aerating foam tip that replaces the fog spud, producing ~100gpm of Class A foam -- that combo can eat some serious fire in the right situation.


    We often deploy the Rockwood in combination with an applicator. Pictured above is the red foam nozzle I mentioned before. A Bayonet that goes through sheetrock and sheetmetal easily. The long tool is the Second Story Applicator which in certain tactical situations is the cat's rear end.

    The most common deployment of the SSA is to cut-off fire extension on a second floor before hoselines can get into position, or more commonly to hold fire extension on a chicken coop until water supply for master stream ops is secured.

    The majority of our other handlines that come off instead of or to support the 1.5"/Rockwood combo are 1.75" with 200gpm TFT nozzles.

    Matt

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    I'm sure I will make enemies when I say this but those navy nozzles are about as good as a fart in a tornado.

    They may have been good in their time but I think they are outdated. Our former Chief lived and died by those navy nozzles and the Santa Rosa nozzles (I call them Santa Leakers). He had a navy nozzle on a 1 1/2" attack line with our first out engine with CAF. This did not work at all for initial fire attack at all. Myself and other officers refused to put them back in service. I could see where they could work as a good trash nozzle or maybe even a brush fire nozzle but that would be it other that a door stop.

    Maybe this is all just what you trained with and what you are used to. For example, try finding a manual focus lens for a manual focus camera. I had to special order one from Montana. I prefer manual focus cameras and guys younger than me swear by auto focus cameras.

    No matter what the case is, I guess it breaks down to personal preference. The bottom line is whatever works to get the job done right?

    Keep your head down and your powder dry!

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    Rescue 1 carried a navy fog and an applicator. We drilled with them to use it at a Hi-rise fire. It was suppose to be used from the floor below into the window above to knock down the fire. Never saw it in used at a fire.
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    Bunch a old farts. What the heck's a Navy Nozzle?????????
    IZZAT when ya call in the coast guard to pump yer pistons???????
    I'll tell you what John, you gotta be about 30 years older than you look.

    Thanks, I needed a good laugh

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    We still use navy nozzels in my dept. We keep about 3 of them in one of our compartments on our first due pumper. I've never used one on flame but in training maybe once... Whats an OBA? We probably have them too.

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    We still have and use 4 navy type nozzles in my department. In fact they are the ones we use the most. Each engine has 150' of 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 that is the trash line and the goose neck applicator for junk fires. The new engine has the 2 1/2 one in a compartment and the applicator up with the drafting sections. The truck co has a 1" one that I found a few years back. Have fought a few car fires with them I can say I would rather use a navy one over another nozzle.

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    He had a navy nozzle on a 1 1/2" attack line with our first out engine with CAF.

    Don't know the specifics of your CAFS system, but I could see it being an issue...ours is 40gpm/40cfm and the Navy nozzle solid bore would be too small (well, OK -- you get the water, but it comes out soupy instead of bubbly) while the straight-thru with the spud removed would be too wide (foam comes out and flops real fast...) We use an 1-1/8th (?) tip that seems just right for our system.

  12. #12
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    Default OBA's

    linzwathill-

    An OBA is an old type of breathing apparatus. The term OBA was common for the units in the Navy, but I can't for the life of me remember what it stands for. Something like Oxygen (generating) Breathing Apparatus. It's been way too long ago. They were also known as MSA Chemox. Unlike our current units with a pressurized bottle on your back, these were mounted on your chest, and utilized a chemical canister that was activated by the moisture in your breath to initiate the chemical process. The generated O2 was then stored in heavy rubberized bladders mounted on each side of the canister. They were light, and worked better than sucking air through your beard. Maybe that's a bit of an exageration. The facepiece had a supply hose from the bladders, and return hose that returned exhaled air to the canister. It had 2 lenses over your eys rather than one big one, so the user somewhat resembled a fly.

    I don't remember for sure, but I think these things were rated for 45 minutes use. The problem was that it took some time, especially in the winter to start the canisters. You had to coordinate breathing around the facepiece, and exhaling into the facepiece to get the canister started. There was, however a type of canister that utilized what was called a "candle" to initiate the chemical process to speed things up. After the cartridge was insterted into the unit and the seal was punctured by tightening the bail, you pulled a cord on the bottom of the cartridge that lit the "candle".

    A major problem with these things was that they sometimes generated oxygen faster than you could use it, and pressure built up pretty high in the bladders and the air circuit, so you had to vent some of the generated air via a manual pressure relief valve mounted on the facepiece. The had a kitchen timer mounted on the unit so you could keep track of your time "on air" (half of 'em would stop running). After you were finished with the unit, you were supposed to remove the canisters from the harness using heavy gloves (they got hotter than hell), punch a couple of holes in them, drop them into a bucket of water, and then run like hell. They would bubble like crazy splashing water everywhere. The problem with that was that the water was pretty corrosive as I recall, so you had to be sure you rinsed off any contact points pretty well.

    You see these things at musters every now and then. If you get a chance, take a close look at one. They are a big part of your heritage.
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  13. #13
    John_Ford
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    Originally posted by E229lt
    Bunch a old farts. What the heck's a Navy Nozzle?????????
    IZZAT when ya call in the coast guard to pump yer pistons???????
    I'll tell you what John, you gotta be about 30 years older than you look.

    Thanks, I needed a good laugh

    Listen ya old goat. Yur older then I am. But when yur out here in the sticks and the old bastards here didn't throw nuthin' away, ya do what ya gotta do.

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    John,
    I'm-a-scared to go out your way. I hear the Troopers got altitude.

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    Listen you two geezers, I thought a navy nozzle is a sailor with whacker tendencies. Just kidding. I know what a navy nozzle is. Matter of fact we still have one at the station. I isnt in service but its still kicking around. We also have the bayonet to go with it.
    Let the busting of the chops begin.
    Shawn M. Cecula
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  16. #16
    John_Ford
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    Default Old timers/Young bucks :)

    Listen Kid. When I came on, Only the Real men had their own helmets. The rest of us punks had to make do with what was on the engine. Gentex helmets, Naugatherm coats and 3/4 boots. The largest size was 10 and as a teenager I wore size 12 and there were only two(2) pair of the 10's. The preconnect's were twin boosters with APN's and a 150' of 1 1/2 with a screw type nozzle. 2000' of 2 1/2 and da skid load. Open cab gas jobs and this in a place were the winters get REAL cold. Ah, the good old days.

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    Talking re: old timers/young bucks

    So, Let me guess,

    I bet you had to walk to school, 5 miles in knee deep snow with rags to cover your feet...AND... You were thankful for the rags!!



    Seems to me I heard my grandfather tell this story...about 30 years ago.

    Just bustin' your chops

    Stay Safe

    Jim
    Last edited by AVFR452; 03-06-2002 at 12:02 AM.

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    Smile Navy All Purpose Nozzles

    John, I must be an old timer also! I have used the NAP nozzle. We had them when I was in the service from 1958-1964 and it was the only nozzle available to us at the time. When I came on my present department this was the nozzle of choice. Not only did this nozzle flow a smaller amount, when it was in the solid stream mode but was used in conjuction with the short and long applicators. These was normally used on tar buggy's. We also have the old OBA's and the all service filter masks. We used the NAP's on the double wye leader line to attack most house fires. We also had a 2-1/2" NAP nozzle that was used on the old 2-1/2. Of course we had some of the nwer fog nozzles but the old officer's back then wouldn't have used those, because they were used to the all purpose nozzles. We got rid of all the 2-1/2 NAP's in the late 60's and the 1-1/2 NAP's in the late 90's, all though they were seldon used except for trash fires and for wash downs.

    I was fun to see a new firefighter try to used a all purpose nozle for the first time, not knowing that the bail half way open would give a different stream than it did when it was fully opened! To watch the newer guys insert an applicator nozzle in the ap nozzle was fun, if someone was holding the nozzle and would crack the nozzle as the applicator was being inserted.

    These nozzles when the way along as did the old Baker Cellar pipes. I bet there aren't many people around that ever seen a Baker pipe or even the 45.70 line thrower. We had them all on the truck companies for along time before the newer .22 caliaber line throwers came out and placed into service.

    I still have my original turtle shell helmet, but it now hanging in my den along with other helmets that I have collected.


    Stay Safe - Stay Well
    Last edited by Cmdr/3rdalarm; 03-06-2002 at 08:32 PM.

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    Have to go with Bob from Mohnton,PA on this one. Ours get used on car fires the most and they have worked very well. They also work well on dumpster fires. Of course you should always have your back-up line ready to go and/or in service too! The nice thing about these nozzles is the applicator, it lets you keep some distance between you and the fire.


    Just my opinion as usual.

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    OK, here's my story. I ain't that old, 11 years on the job, but all our Engines still carry the Navy nozzle. It's in the compartment, as a spare. However, we still have several rigs that have the what we call the "Low velocity fog applicator", as part of their equipment inventory. We also have piercing type nozzles as well. One of the best uses for the Navy nozzle with the applicator is if a tractor-trailer is in involved in fire, you can use the applicator on the suspension components from a safe didtence, especially if the truck or trailer has air-bag type suspension. Those can ruin your day if you are under the truck trying to hit some fire, and they suddenly let go. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it!
    Leroy140 Fairfield, CT Local 1426

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    John, as you know I certainly aint the oldest in my FD, but I was the only one that knew what the navy nozzle looked like.
    Listen Kid. When I came on, Only the Real men had their own helmets. The rest of us punks had to make do with what was on the engine. Gentex helmets, Naugatherm coats and 3/4 boots. The largest size was 10 and as a teenager I wore size 12 and there were only two(2) pair of the 10's. The preconnect's were twin boosters with APN's and a 150' of 1 1/2 with a screw type nozzle. 2000' of 2 1/2 and da skid load. Open cab gas jobs and this in a place were the winters get REAL cold. Ah, the good old days.
    S**t we still have an engine with the open rear facing jump seats. And talk about cold, Western NY aint exactly Bermuda. Had an air pack freeze to my back after a car fire one time.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Geez, I hadn't thought bout Navy nozzles, fog applicators, or OBA's in years and I dont miss em either, esp the OBA's. Its good to hear others talk about em cause that means I ain't that old yet, and I surprised to their still in use.

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    229,(Snicker) Is it true about New Yak?That being the fact that they haven't changed the basic two nozzles youz guys been usin' since the Steema's?I know ya got the sattelites,I'm talkin about hand lines.If it ain't solid bore it ain't a nozzle!Huh,Huh is it true?Come on you can tell me,it's O.K. Man I needed this,the memories,too much fire too little nozzle.The pups today don't know how good they got it!
    Thanks John Ford for the stress relief.T.C.

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    If it ain't solid bore it ain't a nozzle!Huh,Huh is it true?
    You want fog? Go to England!!!!

  25. #25
    John_Ford
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    Default Deployment

    Artie, Lewiston I've been activated. My unit is being deployed across the pond. Will try and keep in touch but Access/e-mail is questionable. JF

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