1. #1
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    Thumbs down DFD closing a station instead of hiring white FFs

    I'm sure you have all read the article on firehouse.com about the FFs protesting city hall. The City of Dayton has decided to shut down a station because of the lack of firefighters. As of right now there are 24 vacancies within the dept, and a list of qualified White ffs to hire from. The Mayor and the civil service board doesn't want to hire them because they do not reflect the cities minorities. So far they have made all civil service tests in the city OPEN BOOK, and so simple a 12 yr old could pass it with no problem. How far should a city go to bring in minority candidates? I always thought a firefighter was there to serve the community,not reflect it!

  2. #2
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    Thumbs down All in the name of RACIAL equality!

    All in the name of RACIAL equality someone may have to be seriously injured or even die. Disgusting, nauseating, repelling, revolting, sickening, offensive, shocking, reprehensible, revolting, what more can you say when supposedly leaders of a community would do such a thing. So much for the saying, “Justice Is Blind”. Are the citizens in the neighborhood behind the firefighters and protesting with them at city hall? I hope so!

  3. #3
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    Thumbs down

    stupid...stupid....stupid!

    The Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons and others of their ilk complain that the police and fire depatments of many communities do not have enough minorities, yet when the opportunity to take the entrance exams comes up, minorities do not apply.

    Race, gender and religion should have no bearing in the examination, CPAT or physchological testing. Have a set of standards that are challenging and realisitic, and choose from those who want the job!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Default

    Yep I agree, that situation stinks. But everyone of these situations are brought about by us.....not the individuals. There is no-one I know of that would NOT take advantage of a situation that benefits them, and may hurt others. However we constantly bitch and blame the individual....how about for a change we lay it where it should be....on the ball.... poloticians. Think about it, if we voted properly in the first place, these slimes wouldn't have their way. For a change forget Gender and Race.....or targeting individuals and put all that frustration and effort into dumping the "wrong person for the wrong job", relating to those "who serve us and are elected by us!"

    "All gave some...Some gave all!
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    "All gave some...Some gave all!"
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    FDNYRR

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    Default

    Find me a politician that's not a scumbag.

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    Default

    A firefighter's drive to protect and serve an area comes from the heart, not from racial identity. There are other ways of promoting minorities to join a dept. other than blantenly not hiring whites.

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    Thumbs down ?

    How is that legal? It's discrimination the same as if there were only African American, Asian or Hispanic Firefighters on the list and Mayor/Civil Service Board said -"Don't hire them". They'd certainly be in court then. I don't ever advocate litigation, but I think this is the exception - If I was on that list I'd have a civil rights lawyer.
    Susan Lounsbury
    Winston-Salem Rescue Squad
    Griffith Volunteer FD

  8. #8
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    Angry Why??????


    I don't see the debate. There are qualified persons on their list, there are vacancies, why not hire them. Politics suck! I do agree with an earlier post of " we voted them in there". This is true, but ALL politicians blow smoke up your a** to get their desired position, and once they are there, they change their tune entirely. Its been said all to often. But to the Dayton Politicians, here it is once more:

    Regardless of sex, race, creed, ANY person who meets eligible requirements, should be considered. The persons sex or race should not be a considereation. YOU SUCK!
    K.A. Dempsey
    fire69dawg@yahoo.com
    "If you want to make God laugh, tell him what you are doing tomorrow"

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    Red face Horrible!

    I agree with everyone... I am sorry to say that it happens everywhere you go... they say that they (politicians) are trying to represent the people, but in reality they are taking away the hard work and respect that goes with the job! I am currently in the police academy, and they don't care who you are... if you wanna be a cop you are going to have to work for it. I just wish the fire academy's pushed there recruit's the same way, then maybe people would respect us, because we would demand respect from ourselves!
    Last edited by Superfireman; 02-26-2002 at 04:05 PM.
    Dan - FMBA Local 64 Pennsauken Township.(The views and opinions stated above are personal and not that of any organizations I belong to)Yada, Yada, Yada...(Y-a-a-w-w-n!)

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    Agreed!!!!!!! Every Politician is a dirt-bag, and I also agree they tell you what they want to get in. But there's re-election time, I don't care if it's a Mayor, Commissioner, or Govenor, DO NOT DO WHAT WE DID FOR SLICK WILLY.....do not re-elect them. Then someday, all this affirmative action stuff may dwindle!

    "All gave some...Some gave all!"
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    "All gave some...Some gave all!"
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    FDNYRR

  11. #11
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    Angry Typical political BS

    Heaven forbid a FD operate without consulting the affirmative action proponents. All real FFs know that fire waits until an ethnically diverse engine or truck company arrives to extinguish it. I hope the officer has also had sensitivity training so when one of the female, bilingual, handicapped minorities breaks into a sweat from the hot fire the officer can give her milk and cookies and wait until she waives her green flag (which means she feels better and is not thermally chanllenged!

    I have plenty of co-workers of ALL races and both sexes - I am only bitching about the ones who need a size 10 fireboot in his or her ***!
    The views expressed above are my opinion(s) and do not reflect those of my employer or IAFF Local.

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    I have to agree that this plain sucks. By supporting affirmative action minorities actually devalue themselves because it basically says that you are here because of your race, gender, etc. not because of your talents, intellect, and abilities. I am not disputing that there are qualified minorities, I know some, but something has to give. The Boston FD is an example they must be at least 40% minority
    to meet court compliance. Perfectly qualified candidates are being passed over to hire people who took the test as an afterthought. As far as Dayton's situation is concerned, jeopardizing FF safety to meet the pols agenda should be criminal. If I were on the list there I would get a lawyer claiming reverse discrimination. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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    HMMMM all I can do is shake my head. An endless battle that will not change anytime soon. If we wanted to we could play this crying game that was played to get us in this situation. But that wouldn't be in our blood, as firefighters. If we, the firefighters that feel like we are being discriminated against, protested and walked out on our jobs then they, in Washington, will notice. Isn't that what started the whole equal opprotunity, that they protested and made a big scene. It would work but we, as firefighters can not do that. We would not be doing what we do best and love to do, serve our community by not being selfish. Maybe this is why people like firefighters so much because we are to damn nice!

  14. #14
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    Angry Unbelievable!

    Antipyro I agree with you and everyone else 100%. This is the most ridiculous thing that I have heard. What's next? You will have to be 65 or older to be on the Fire Department in a retirement community, after all we have to reflect our communities. I have heard the "reflecting your community" talk before, but this takes the cake.
    Where is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for this one? Why aren't they out there recruiting minorities for the Fire Department. They usually have their noses right in the middle of something like this. Probably not enough media coverage!
    If the minorities are not applying for the jobs, then they probably don't want to do it, so let the people who want to. Why don't we drop the affirmative action and political correctness and give the jobs to the people who actually want the jobs.

    Just my opinion
    If you can't take the heat, stay off the truck!
    There When You Need Us!!!
    Firefighter Forever
    Charbo

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    Default

    Superfireman writes:

    "
    I am
    currently in the police academy, and they don't care who you are... if you
    wanna be a cop you are going to have to work for it. I
    "

    Now now! Never use absolutes! Many years ago a nearby (to me) dity police department gave a promotional exam, intending to promote two white and two black police officers. None of the black police officers who took the test passed it. So the city promoted the two white cops who scored the highest, and the two black cops who scored the highest of the black cops taking the test.

    No department or service has the marked cornered on manipulation in the name of political correctness.
    E-4-A
    IAFF 1176

  16. #16
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    Good Point Ed!
    Dan - FMBA Local 64 Pennsauken Township.(The views and opinions stated above are personal and not that of any organizations I belong to)Yada, Yada, Yada...(Y-a-a-w-w-n!)

  17. #17
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    Default

    as MLK said, color should not matter. he wanted to have a society where race was not a factor in judgement. now they base job openings and other things on race to meet certian criteror. race should not matter. its all about who does the job the best and the way it is supposed to be done, whether they are white, black, chineses, purple, or clear. its all about the JOB.

  18. #18
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    Default get the WHOLE story first.

    anyone so far from dayton or the metro montgomery county area? didnt think so...

    ill wait for DFDCo18 or another Dayton guy to give their thoughts...

  19. #19
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    Truro,
    I'm a Lt with Dayton. The origanal post is basically correct, but like everything else it is a little more complicated.

    In 2000 Local 136 negotiated with management to develope a diversity plan. The plan called for an apprenticeship program where apprentices would be selected by a panel of management and labor. These apprentices after completing the Ohio Firefighter 1 course would recieve 5 extra points on the civil service exam. The program was implimented in september of 2000. The civil service elegibility list was due to expire fall of 01. The City agreed to retest spring of 01. All's well and good right??
    Wrong.....Civil service refused to retest because the Charter mandates elegibility lists must run 1 year with the option to extend them an additional year. The city hired 39 firefighters off the active list and agreed to retest in fall 01.
    Now move to the fall of 01. Civil service refused to retest and extended the old list till the fall of 02. The city wont hire off the old list because.......well.....because.....umm....most of the folks are white and they are ****ed because they have no control over civil service.
    This has turned into a ****ing contest between city council and civil service. The union just wants people hired old list, new list, we dont care. We have 24 vacancies now and more coming everyday. Up to one third of our department can retire in the next 12 months.
    Now the City is in a budget crunch and dont want to pay the overtime to cover the vacancies, Their solution is to close an engine house to cut the overtime. Our solution is to hire the firefighters to kill the overtime.
    We are fighting the closure as hard as we can, the public is getting behind us. Some of the City Council appear to be starting to waffle. Hopefully we will beat this thing.

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