full helmet face shields -vs- bourkes and goggles

[colwell]

Since the Chief's sections doesn't want to respond, so I'll talk with the folks on the floor. Is there any statistics available regarding an increase in eye/face injuries to members of those dept.'s that use the Bourke Eye Shields versus full 4" or 6" face shields on helmets. I would likes to allow my people to use Bourkes w/ goggles but the "Big Chief" is reluctant. The one glaring thing about the Bourkes, I've never seen a picture of firefighter with Bourkes have them in use. They seem to hang there like a porch roof or overhang on their helmets.
I need some hard data here.

Thanks,
A.C. J. Colwell

[BucksEngine78]

I don't know of any statistics, but I imagine all you'd have to do is hit the bourke's kinda hard and see that they are not very impact resistant. I would have to say that goggles are more protective than the faceshields however, since they prevent any impact, including projectiles that may get behind a faceshield. Look for NFPA and ANSI compliant goggles. They comply (unlike bourkes) for a reason, i.e. they prevent eye injury.

[PuffyNPFD]

I prefer to have the bourkes because they are up and out of the way and don't affect the balance of the helmet. The goggles and the full face shields will melt in high heat but then again so will the bourkes. I keep a pair of safety glasses in my turnouts so I know for sure my eyes are protected! Probably the best way to go.

[bfd1071]

I agree with Puffy. Safety glasses are the only way to go.

[SkipJack270]

I disagree on the safety glasses. While they are tops, I have found that goggles provide more proction than glasses, because they don't have a tendency to fall off. They're strapped on. That, and you'll change your mind if you are ever unlucky enough to have a fluid in the face ( I was lucky. I just got saltwater.)
BTW, I should add that this was not in the fire service. This was during a landscaping job.

[FEDERAL Q2B]

The only true eye protection is safety glasses or goggles. The shield vs the bourkes argument just doestn cut it anymore. Nobody even enforces the shield down rule anyhow

[RTFD2909]

Best way to put it is to agree with all of the above...well for the most part anyway. Goggles really are the way to go. The testing standards and even the practicle use is so much better then a full face shielf which there are plenty of problems with to begin with. Safe the time and money and out fit bourke's with goggles and move into the future of firefighting.

[dfd3dfd3]

My dept is unfortunatly going to goggles. Before I had borks but used safety glasses if i needed them. On my very first fire i blackened and scratched the lens on the goggles. So matter how safe they were they are useless now. Goggles are fine if all you do is window shoot but if you are on an agressive dept goggles dont last very long. But, our brass hasnt touched a handline in some time, you know how it is. I still have my safety glasses, if they get scratched i go get new ones for 2 bucks.

[captstanm1]

I am usually pretty radical...but...in the interest of safety...

Bourque Eye shields were at one point better than the full face shield. The problem with them is that if they are not installed correctly they are too far from the face to be effective at all. Hence...the only really good (nothing is fool proof) protection is compliant goggles (ESS is Good). If you have the bourques without the goggles they helmet is not compliant. I dont think you will find any hard evidence....just field experience.

In reference to safety glasses they are a joke. They wont stay on and dont provide full eye protection. I used to have some guys who bought the sunglass type. That was their excuse to wear "cool" glasses on calls. But when it came down to it...they wqere ineffective....especially when you sweated and it ran down your nose, causing the glasses to slip.

[postal79]

i agree that goggles are the best form of eye protection, but good goggles should be purchased, and the good goggles are not made to be on your helmet when in a high temp. environment. i think that if someone wants to keep their bourkes thats fine, as long as they have their goggles with them and use them.

[PuffyNPFD]

Captain, I'll have to disagree with you on this one. I have never had the safety glasses fall off. I put the no-fog solution on them and I'm good to go.I use them for extrication, tech rescue, and when using power equipment. But this is just my preference everyone has to tailor fit them to their needs and comfort zone.