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  1. #1
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    Default Lairdsville Incident, (A new Place to post)

    Here we go Kiddies, A new place to post your anger and frustrations.

    Bob.....Um well how can i say this ....Thanx for giving your client confidence..Now im sure he will do more time then necessary. The truth is, If he doesn't plead guilty (which he is) he will do years in jail.....not months.

    Give this message to Al,
    Stand up,be a man, admit what you did was wrong then move on. Maybe by doing so you will help stop others from being in the situation that we are all in now.

  2. #2
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    Duh-A! Lack of information............however I'll help=

    "ANGER and FRUSTRATION".........hows that?

    "All gave some...Some gave all!
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    "All gave some...Some gave all!"
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    FDNYRR

  3. #3
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    Post Hmmm.....

    Ok here's my 2cents worth on this subject.
    Due to the fact that I'm approximately 6 miles from the location of this incident, I have been following this story. I know members of all the involved depts, ie. Westmoreland, Lairdsville, and Lowell. From the news articles and the news stories concerning this story, I can tell you there are a lot of "bits and pieces" missing. There are 2 different stories about who actually started the sofa on fire. There are numerous stories about who was actually in charge of the fire scene, with numbers as high as 5(yes five) officers in charge of the training scene. Concerning these "stories" there are 2 reports taken that are different from one another, one I believe is from OSHA and the other from the DA's office.
    Now, #1. If the DA is going to charge anybody for what happened it should be all of the officers on the scene that were "in charge". That means 5 officers of the fire depts should all incur charges. If the DA wants to single out 1 person then they need to get all the facts straight on WHO actually started the live fires. With 2 conflicting reports out there I can guarantee the DA has no clue who actually started the sofa on fire. Due to the fact there are 2 reports, In my opinion I believe there should be no criminal charges brought against one sole person. This training exercise was "controlled" by more than one fire dept officer.
    Next, #2. As far as Lairdsville firefighters and officers stating that "they never heard of NFPA standards", in my opinion that is a bold faced LIE!!!! That is one of the first things your attention is brought to upon obtaining a membership in a volunteer fire dept, within the first year(probationg time) you must obtain NYState fire training and pass this class. They do speak of NFPA during this class. Most local dept chiefs and officers will give out some kind of paperwork on NFPA standards as well as that companies by-laws and rules and regulations. If any fire fighter doesn't have any knowledge of NFPA then by all means if you mess up then you deserve the punishment brought upon you. NFPA standards ARE THE BIBLE OF THE FIRE SERVICE.(period)
    Now for #3. Due to the fact that miscellaneous members of the lairdsville fire dept state they never heard of NFPA, here is a question for them. HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN THE BASIC NYS FIRE TRAINING CLASS????? If the answer is no, then there is no need for any member of that department to do anything involved with firefighting untill the classes are taken and passed. If the answer is yes, then you have just proven my point on the LIE that was mentioned by members of Lairdsville.
    #4. On another note, I do applaud Westmoreland Fire Commisioners on taking over the Lairdsville fire district. Lairdsville fire dept is now currently known as Westmoreland Station 2. This should have been done years ago due to the lack of membership for that dept and lack of funding.
    ((((((this whole message is my opinon only and does not reflect on anybody affiliated with me. if you have been offended please don't read this again.)))))))
    STAY SAFE AND HEALTHY

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    i am with you all the way golden.you tell mr moron how it is....as for readneck1174 the da is tottaly right on there storie of who lite that fire on 9/25/02 get your facts striaght trust me i was there.but i do agree with you on making lfd wfd 2 it should have been done long ago and maybe we wouldnt be going through this now

  5. #5
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    Thumbs down Accountability is the ?????

    What does that mean????????I mean that the people (key word here is people=plural) should be held accountable. It does not matter who lit the fire or who gave the order. If all the officers participated and one (only takes one) of them noticed or had a concern then that person or persons should have said, "TIME OUT" "we are making a mistake." But....apparently none of them had enough common sense to make that observation. Training for live exercises is not rocket scientist stuff. Just takes common sense, which obviously was not a requirement for any of the officers. When you accept an officer position (elected or appointed) whether the vote is by popularity or based on your qualifications, you are saying you are ready to be a leader, be accountable for your decisions, accept responsibility. Lead by example..... Would the Chief encourage others in the Department to train the way he organized that drill????? What would he have said if by some reason he had been out of town in the morning and allowed his officers to conduct the drill? What would he have said had he come back to all this after it was over?

    They all screwed up and should be held accountable.

    We tend to act as we are trained and by that being the case, would this department go after a fire in this half-a**ed way with no consideration for personnel safety? Would they put untrained firefighters in a real life situation alone? I think not (or at least I hope not)!

    It is completely unacceptable to kill a person in training exercises. What message does that send?

    This was a result of lack of planning, ignorance of the standards (so they say..... NO EXCUSE!!!), lack of common sense, poor leadership, reckless disregard for safety, immaturity..... Hmmmm....list goes on.

    Bottom line is......STUPIDITY PREVAILED!

    How did I do?

    Oh yea.... by the way...how did he light the fire on 09/25/02???? Not even here yet!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    hey capts ...im sorry i ment 9/25/01...but anyways untill you know all the facts that went on that night quit running your mouth it wasnt all three depts that made a mistake that night . you dont know the storie besides what you heard on here and i am not going to share it with you but untill you know the facts just shut it mr. you live 1300 miles away so dont come on here acting like you know what your talking about because you dont

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    Angry

    Struck a nerve huh?????

    You are right....the true story never comes out...but regardless.....someone made a HORRIBLE error and some one was KILLED....Killing folks in Training is unacceptable!!! Someone must be held accountable!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    yes capts...some one did make a mistake and they are being held acountable tottaly agree with you there but not all the officers that were there that night snould be held accountable..the D.A has the right guy in my opinion

  9. #9
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    Question

    HMMMMMM....Perhaps you may be right....but look at it this way...

    If the other officers involved in the training knew something was out of whack and dangerous situations were present, why didnt they make an attempt to stop it or correct it. They let it go on...so...they are also responsible..

    On the other hand.,......If they did not recognize that a serious problem existed....Then perhaps they should not be officers....or...need more training on Safety and Survival accompanied by new GLASSES!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    hmmmm capts your starting to get it there big guy ......maybe some of the officers did try to stop it maybe thats why there not being charged hmmmmmm have to wait and see because i cant tell you what happned but you are getting it and yes some of them lfd higher ups shouldnt have been higher up if you know what i mean... common they dont know what nfpa is hahahaahah what a sorry excuse if you took basic firefighter it is only in the book 500 times or so man that is killing me "no we dont know what nfpa is " hahah maybe the some one who said that should join the ladies aux..

  11. #11
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    Lightbulb Bingo

    Hmmmmm...now the truth is coming out..... It seems as if some of the officers present may have said..."this is wrong".....but were weak enough not to take affirmative action and forcibly put a stop to it. If it was wrong...and they knew it...and did not stop it and were part of the command team....they are accountable! I am not certain....but isnt that vicarious liability???? Their had to be more of them than there was of the Chief (1) and therefore they should have overruled and stopped the exercise. What is the worse that would have happened if they had immediately overthrown the command system? They may have been suspended.....but..."IF" they had done so....I dont think anyone would have died. RIGHT??????

    They were weak and had no backbone to stop it. If it were my family....they would certainly be named in the lawsuit. Lack of criminal liability or guilt does not relieve civil liability. They had a "DUTY TO ACT"
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    hey capts i quite arguing with you ...you do have some good ideas but you have noclue on what happend so i am leaving it at that . buh bye

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    [How sad that a man serves and protects a community for 13 years and they abandon him when he needs them most.I feel it is time that cetain individuals get a gut check and do the right thing.I feel very bad for the Golden family but to hang one person when we all know it takes several to make command decisions is outrageous.I do agree some mistakes were made,but by all involved not just AL.lets all get together to change things.Not just Westmoreland, but across the board.

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    sorry there is no way in hell i will support al when he trys to put blame on others that had nothing to do with it. hahaha again another case of you dont know your facts.. al is not a brother fire fighter as far as i am consernd he should take it like a man and take what he has comming to him

  15. #15
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    nyfirefighter55????

    I have noticed that each or at least most of your response contain a "hahahahaha"..... Am I to take it that you think some of this or any of this is funny?? I see someone else on here believes in holding accountable the "command staff" I also agree...let us stop this across the country.....not just in NY. I feel sorry for the individual charged....of course I do....No one wants anyone to go through that....but...what is wrong is wrong and again...if more than one were involved...they all should shoulder the responsibility.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    sorry capts i do not think any of this is funny at all

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    Why did they close the last thread?

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    NYff55,I think Captstanm is plenty qualified to speak on this subject all facts known or not.Had you done a little background investigation on this gentleman,I don't think you would be backtalking to him the way you are now.Personally I think I'd like to be sitting on the OSHA inquiry board and hear what each "officer" there that night had to offer.I happen to be in TOTAL AGREEMENT with the Capt. that ALL officers there that night should be held accountable.Losses on the training ground are preventable and TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.In case you wonder,check my background,I believe I too have enough time in to adress this subject.T.C.

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    First I would like to express my sympathies to the families of those who were injured and to the family of the young man who died. Also to the family of the training officer, I'm sure nobody went to that drill that day thinking someone would get killed or hurt. I think this goes to show you that whether you run 50 or 5000 calls a year the need for proper equipment, training, and certifications are a must. I know in that county there are approx. 50 departs, a couple career, the rest volunteer. There is little or no oversight from the county, the Firefighters/chiefs associations are little more than social organizations. Some of the vol. depts. are very well equiped and funded, many others barely get by. If many of you saw the equipment and budgets they worked with you would be shocked. I find it strange that some would admit to never hearing of NFPA, but it would not surprise me to hear that many of the officers/members never read any of the NFPA standards. I think this should be a real wake up call to that area, probably a third of those departs. could be merged together or closed, then money, training, equipment and standards could be standardized throughout the county. I believe the days of each little department trying to get by with bake sales and raffles and members worrying about the size of lightbars are over. I hope some good comes of this.

  20. #20
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    George...I dont know why the closed the last thread...perhaps because of the sensitivity????

    COVFM Yes...from the beginning I have said that I feel sorry for the families and feel thier pain in their loss.
    And yes.....something good has to come from this horrible tragedy. Yes...I am sure that no one meant to go there to kill or maim anyone, but it happened. Ignorance of the standards should not be a crutch...and yes....The darn well better be a "Wake up call!" How many others have done or are doing the same thing and have been "lucky" so far?

    Rescue 101...thanks for the vote of confidence in my background, although I dont feel I have that much more qualifications than any other guy. Its a no brainer....involves COMMON SENSE!... I am still learning...and as an instructor in my former state of residence, I learned alot and still continue to learn on a daily basis. I knew if I kept commenting someone would read this and have the same opinion as I do. I am sure there are more out there that do....but are figuring..."what's the use?"
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    SoMr.nyfirefighter55,I don't know what i'm talking about? well, first lets let everyone know that Hecla does not have a fire dept. Hecla is in the Westmoreland fire district. It also was Lairdsville's area about five yrs. ago. Do you still think I don't know anything? Please tell me why the people from westmoreland are hidding. come out and let us know who you are. See, i know more than you think I do.Obviously, you know nothing about the fire service and it's brotherhood or you would not be lying to others just to make people from your dept. look good. There is no reason for the bashing you have been doing on here. Come out like a man and talk about the facts without lying to people about what you know. If you have not figured it out, the the reason i'm bias is because Al Baird is a close personal friend and I'm behind him 100 percent. BY the way I"m a former Captain of Lairdsville.

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    Thumbs up Hmm...

    AMEN!!!!!!
    (((my post=my opinion)))

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    sorry mr.strain my opinion is al is not a brother and i am not bashing at all . you do not know the facts..were you there that night no.. do you deal with this subject dayin and day out no you dont. you live like 30 miles away you do not know the facts cuz unless you were there that night the facts and i mean all the facts havent been released . and i can bash you all i want because it is my opinion just like you telling me i dont know what i am talking about. trufully i do not care what you think of me. you must be proud to have been an officer in lfd. let me guess you dont know nfpa either. so have fun supporting al if he is found guilty maybe you guys can have a welcome home party for him in 5-15 years. let me know maybe ill stop bye. but my support is for the golden family and the lost brother brad golden. mr.strain accidents happen i know but next time you go to a dwi fatality just remember the next guy that leaves that bar drunk and dosent mean to kill that lil 3 year old and its mother will end up in jail . no he didnt plan on going and killing but he was drunk and went acrossed that yellow line so he has to pay for his mistake and thats what your brother not mine al should do . he should step up to the plate and take it like a man . these are just my opinions

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    I was advised by the Web Team that the previous thread on this topic was closed because it went off point and turned into nothing more than personal attacks and bickering.

    Thank God this thread has turned out to have none of that.

  25. #25
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    No kidding...hopefully that won't happen to this thread!


    Getting back on topic...does anyone know if the trial will be on CourtTV?

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