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View Poll Results: Shoudl IAFF members be allowed to Volunteer without IAFF interferance

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  • YES

    45 44.12%
  • NO

    21 20.59%
  • Yes, but not in the same jurisdiction they work in.

    36 35.29%
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  1. #1
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Question A Poll: Should IAFF members be allowed to volunteer with interference?

    Everyone has an opinion...so lets see how this poll goes?
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber gfdtrk4's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Yes

    My opinion

    I'm going to volunteer
    (always have, always will..... at least til I WANT to stop)
    FTM-PTB
    trk4

  3. #3
    Member SquadHog's Avatar
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    Capt. Stan:
    I think you need to make a distinction between an IAFF member volunteering in a jurisdiction where there is no IAFF local (i.e. all volunteer, no career firefighters,) and an IAFF member who volunteers in a department where other IAFF members work... there is a BIG difference and this is the issue that Resolution 43 addresses.

    If you were to do that I would vote YES in the first instance and NO in the latter.
    "Go ugly early."

  4. #4
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    I can see several issues, both from the IAFF, and from small communities, and firefighters who love their work. The IAFF is working to ensure current jobs and future jobs for firefighters. This is what they are there for, in addition to lots of other things. Most small communities can't afford a fully-paid, or partly paid fire department, and so they have to rely on volunteers. This leads to the third point. Most firefighters, career and volunteer, love the job! The love the excitement, commraderie, friendships, adrenaline rush, trucks, soot, etc. about firefighting.

    There are so many points to this whole career/volunteer/IAFF issue, many of which are heartfelt and lead to bashing of both sides, by both sides. Does this mean that the IAFF is wrong? I won't say because I don't know. Does this mean that fire departments, both career and volunteer, are wrong? Not sure. I would think that most volunteer departments would love having a career firefighter who is willing to serve the community and help make the department better.

    Now, by volunteer department, I mean a true volunteer department. It might have some part-time or full-time daystaffing. This is common in Kentucky, and other parts. Some of them have unions, some don't. But, isn't it all about serving the community and protecting the people in that community? Some career firefighters aren't the best, just as some volunteers aren't either, so the training issue can apply to both.

    Just my opinion, might not be right, or wrong, just try to understand.

    Keep safe, play hard......

  5. #5
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Squadhog...

    I appreciate your view but I wrote it that way because I honestly dont think it should matter. It is their right to be a member of their community fire department. Thanks for the input though. I do understand the resolution...but...I still dont agree with it.

    I also would continue to volunteer....they could have my card!

    PS...moderator....please correct the first word of the poll to read "Should" @#$%@ no spell check

    Thanks....
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  6. #6
    IACOJ Agitator Adze39's Avatar
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    I chose "Yes, but not in the same jurisdiction". I believe that should be a department thing, not union though.

    My town has two volunteer fire departments. We don't allow you to be a member of both. Why not? Main reasons would probably be to the extent of conflict of interest and providing service to "rival organization" (to borrow a term). The same would go with career/volunteer. If they live outside of the jurisdiction, then nothing should stop them from volunteering their own time.

  7. #7
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Adze....

    I might partially agree with you on that.....I guess it would depend on what the Blue Suited jurisdictional attroney says about how he interprets FLSA...and we all know that there is most likely a different opinion in each jurisdiction....(Dont they all get to read the same thing?...hmmmmm). Still think as long as they are off duty...they should be able to do as they please (within the limits of the law of course) whether a union or no union is present. For example....a very small department in a small city. 1 Station, a paid Chief and a total of 6 firefighters. They have no tax base to support more and rely on the help of volunteers as supplemental staffing. They are IAFF.....If the writing is on the wall that no more staffing is available and the system is combination and the FLSA Goobers have no problem with it... If you do not allow a person to volunteer in that department because he is union and works there or is a union memeber of the County Fire Department that surrounds that small city....then you are putting your fellow brothers in danger. That may be an extreme case...but...none the less...I know it is a real one and DOES exist.

    I also agree that you can not adequately serve two different volunteer departments in the same jurisdiction. That is assuming you have a job (Firefighting or otherwise) and spend your off the job contributing to the volunteer dept. Besides....how do you decide which one to respond to if they both have a call at same time or are both dispatched to the same call????
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  8. #8
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    I agree with SquadHog
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  9. #9
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    just moving this back to the top so more folks will see it.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  10. #10
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    My opinion on this is no. Eventually, these people that "two-hat" it, are going to have to make a choice between the two. You cannot serve two masters, and while I have been on both sides of the fence, I will support the side that has provided better benefits and working conditions for me during my career-the IAFF.

  11. #11
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    Looks like the so called IAFF brotherhood is going down in a route!!!!!!!!

    I thought the membership set the rules, oh well guess not!

  12. #12
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Mike....I dont know if the IAFF is going down. I just think they are making a mistake. It is obvious from the results of this poll that only a few (at this point) are hard line "NO" folks. I think that when they begin to interfere with what you can do on your own time in your own community then they are taking away some of that "AMERICAN FREEDOM."

    The IAFF is a great organization. I have seen that from working with my girlfriend's local in the county she works at. Their primary purpose is to focus on better working conditions etc. I think in some cases as administration changes or someone wakes up with a gas pain and mistakes it for an idea of brilliance that they often make decisions or rules that would make one believe they are out to eliminate the volunteer system.

    That was apparent from my old IAFF Local's continued efforts to discredit the volunteers in the combination department instead of efforts to work with and support administration in the ever present budget process. I recent years however, the newer IAFF officials in that organization seem to have changed gears a bit. It used to be amazing to me. When career staff was off duty and the volunteers had the "big one" and it went bad, the IAFF moles made sure the papers got all the details. But when a "big one" during career hours went bad, it was an "untenable situation", "we did all we could".... I guess fires burn different at night or on weekends. I know this is not the point of the post, but yet it is an example on how the IAFF focus is different from location to location.

    Whiel the yes vot is split here to a yes....but vote, it is still obvious that the opinion exists that the union is "out of bounds here." I realize that this resolution is focused on IAFF members volunteer in jurisdictions where IAFF is present or where career firefighters are located.... But...I still think it is minding other peoples business. And....as things go...some local IAFF will no doubt soon interpret the ruling to mean "any volunteering" is off limits.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  13. #13
    Member SquadHog's Avatar
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    Capt. Stan:
    With all due respect, I'd be very skeptical about drawing any conclusions from your poll. There is an expression, "Let me tell you a question" used to describe a question with a built in bias. Professional pollsters regularly use this technique to the full advantage of whomever is writing the check.

    As I mentioned previously, there is a BIG difference between an IAFF member volunteering in a jurisdiction where there is no IAFF local and an IAFF member who volunteers in a department where other IAFF members work.

    I am a loyal IAFF member. I also volunteer at home in a small, rural town protected by a small, exclusively volunteer department. There are no career departments in the area, I am not interfering in any way with the jobs of union members, therefore I am, in fact, "allowed to volunteer without interference."
    Last edited by SquadHog; 03-04-2002 at 09:42 PM.
    "Go ugly early."

  14. #14
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Squad Hog????

    What constitutes a career department? If your small town fire department went to the Town Government and said... Can we have assistance in the form of a paid driver during the day? Does that make your department a career department? If so....since there is no union in a one person department....would you have to quit volunteering?

    I applaud you for remembering your roots and sticking with your volunteer department. HOORAH! We have one thing in common after all...LOL...
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  15. #15
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Thats right Mike C. it sure looks like a "route" against the IAFF with all those votes in. Im sure those 30 votes are going to break up a union that has been organized since 1918. If you are a member and you choose to volunteer on another IAFF Department, you are wrong.
    Last edited by MIKEYLIKESIT; 03-04-2002 at 06:16 PM.

  16. #16
    Member Fire61's Avatar
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    Unhappy Bad Union FF's?

    Everyone has a right to make a decision based on what fits their lifestyle. It is called freedom of choice. However, it is not a "right" to belong to the IAFF. It is your free choice to leave according to a Constitution you agreed to, if you choose not to follow the rules.

    We are a bit different up here, as there are hardly anything even close to "volunteer" firefighters. Most are all "part time" and many of them are starting to unionize under the United Auto Workers. In my area, most make a 2 hour minimum per call at $25.00/hr, based on what full time make. Regardless, they are just as committed to their citizens and do an excellent job.

    As far as being a firefighter is concerned, I respect part time firefighters. They do an excellent job under adverse conditions, and usually fight more advanced fires, as detection and response times differ. We both try to make a difference within our communities. That being said though, I will not be apologetic for being a full time firefighter.

    As for Captstanm1. I have read your posts, and see that you have a lip on against F/T firefighters and in particular, unions. I assume that your pension is paid for through your volunteer contributions, so automatically have to respect your warped outlook.

    I try to respect all my bretheren. For, not all my brothers have to belong to the IAFF for them to be kindred to me.

    Stay safe.

  17. #17
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Fire61
    With all due respect to my neighbor from the north.....
    I am not sure why you assume I have a "LIP" about F/T firefighters??? Not know much about volunteers and what they stand for...you sir...seem to have a "LIP" about non F/T firefighters. My girlfriend is a firefighter (F/T as you would have it) as are a lot of my friends. I have no problem with that at alland they have no problem with me volunteering (even though I am a former union member). I used to be a F/T firefighter and am considering going back into it as an Auxillary/Part Time Firefighter. So...put on your glasses. My problem is not with paid firefighters or full time firefighters or even unions...

    My problem is with freedom of choice as you mention it. I will give you the fact that the members who joined the IAFF did agree to abide by the almighty constitution & by-laws. However, it is one of those rules that has been on the books and is not enfoced or has not been. Just like it is "unlawful for a divorce woman to go skydying in Florida on Sunday." A ridiculous rule right? I think this is a ridiculous and unfair rule..thats all I am saying. I wonder how many other "rules" go uninforced in the "by-laws" everyone seems to be so bound to uphold? This is one of those rules that is not enforced until you tick someone off. That has happened and now it is an issue. It is a dumb rule and should be changed......
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  18. #18
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Stan...When you choose to become a Union Firefighter you DO have a choice, FOLLOW THE RULES ! How hard is that to understand?

  19. #19
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    I to am an IAFF member and volunteer for my community fire dept. My volunteer dept. is small and on a tight budget we share day time manning with another small town volunteer dept.

    I don't see a conflict because the money is not there to pay for a f/t dept. I feel I'm in a position to help the community due to my experience. Besides that my wife and kids have to depend on this dept. for medics or fire.

    It is my resposibility to provide for my family and I want to know that the responding people are trained and able to take care of them if needed. Whats wrong with that? After all it is my time and the department I have to rely on.
    Stay cool, Be safe

  20. #20
    Member SquadHog's Avatar
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    captstanm1 :

    I find it highly unlikely, with a whopping total of just over 100 runs in all of 2001, that my hometown department could justify any career members. We don't even have a cop here, so I know the town couldn't afford it. But that really isn't the issue is it? The bottom line, Captain, is what the IAFF by-laws say. They say that an IAFF member shalt not be a volunteer in a juridiction where another IAFF Local is organized. In my case, the closest place fitting that description is over 30 miles and two counties away. If I could not live with that rule, I wouldn't belong to the union.

    "Roots" have nothing to do with it. A career or combination department is not an option where I live so it's a purely practical decision. If push ever came to shove, my loyalty would be with the IAFF, the union that bargains for the paycheck that keeps a roof over my family's head and food on the table, as well as every job benefit that I now enjoy.

    None of this changes the fact that your poll question is so biased in it's wording that does not accurately address the issue. IAFF members are "allowed to volunteer without interference" as long as their volunteering doesn't interfere with another IAFF members job.

    "Progress through Unity"
    Last edited by SquadHog; 03-04-2002 at 09:57 PM.

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