In light of the forums on the "Half Rim", what does everyone perform most commonly, the dash lift...
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Thread: Dash Roll vs Dash Lift
03-16-2002, 04:19 PM #1
Dash Roll vs Dash LiftLuke
03-16-2002, 04:21 PM #2
Or a dash roll.....Luke
03-16-2002, 06:56 PM #3
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
- Silver City, Oklahoma USA
I can't speak for my current department, as we don't do extrication yet (but soon, we're collecting the tools). The department I was on a couple of years ago did a dash lift more often, though I can't say why.
I preferred the dash roll--seemed like there was less equipment in the way when bringing the patient out.
Hey, Lutan, I've found one common element to all of the nasty wrecks you've posted pictures of: the steering wheel is on the wrong side of the car! I'd have the authorities look into that....Bryan Beall
Silver City, Oklahoma USA
03-16-2002, 08:19 PM #4
- Join Date
- Jul 1999
- Puyallup, Wa.
I'd hate to get locked into one way of thinking and say we only do it 'this' way. As you guys know, no 2 wrecks are ever quite the same and it makes sense to know a variety of different ways to do the same job, and then pick the most appropriate one for the task at hand.
Everything else equal, I'm a fan of the dash lift, aka jacking the dash with the spreader. Seems faster and easier. No ram in the way, no need to fiddle with an anchor for the ram's base when you've already done a maxidoor or layed the entire side down.
A slight variation which seems to work equally well is a dash roll with the spreader. By this I mean you make a single relief cut in the A pillar between the hinges as far forward as possible, make a small pie cut in the a post a little higher for your top spreader tip to grab onto, and you place the bottom tip of the spreader behind the base of the a post(instead of in between the hinges). You spreader opens angled towards the front end.
Rolling the dash using the ram, and spreading from the center console area are obviously some other options from inside the car. Also make sure you can get the same result if you don't have access to the pt.'s door ie. car on its side or obstacle in the way. We just got our Columnmaster last week, and its seems to be a good tool. I've also spanned the windshield area with a 4ft. 4x4, and after looping the column with a length of chain, lifted the chain and column with either a spreader or hilift jack (this method requires that you still have the roof on).
03-16-2002, 10:11 PM #5
Our steering wheel is on the proper side of the car, we drive on the proper side of the road and we work in metric measurement- I'm sure it's you guys that have got it wrong!
Another variation on doing the dash roll when the side of the car has been removed is to place the ram between the dash and the spreaders which are clamping the floor pan....Luke
03-16-2002, 10:41 PM #6
- Join Date
- Dec 1999
- NorthEast Paid on Call
Rock & Roll
The dash roll is usually plan A, subject to change without notice.
What's the contact point for the lower jaws of the spreaders when lifting? Most floorboards are pretty weak. My other concern is committing the spreaders to this task, once you've started and have made some headway you are committed and your spreaders won't be of any further use to you.
We would only use the spreaders as an anchor point for the ram as a last resort. I know they are tough but they weren't designed for that.
Plan A is just that; a plan. Doesn't mean we wouldn't or haven't used either of the other two methods mentioned.
Last edited by Ten8_Ten19; 03-18-2002 at 10:34 PM._________DILLIGAF
03-16-2002, 10:52 PM #7
Personally, I prefer the Dash Roll. I am not in any ways saying it is better, just saying we use it more often. We use it mostly to roll the dash off of the driver's, or passengerís, legs. We have cut up many cars to find that using our tools and using our training, our preference has become the Dash Roll... anyone notice how I said it was just our preference? In some circumstances, the dash lift is preferred over the dash roll.
As someone has already mentioned, no two accidents are alike, therefore I live by the analogy to have as many tools and techniques as possible at my disposal, you never know when anyone of them might come in handy.
On a side note:
The steering wheels on our vehicles on our the same side as our southerly neighbours, but we us the metric system like our friends overseas... does that make us half wrong or half right? Damn, I hate being caught in the middle..."No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."
03-16-2002, 10:59 PM #8
Using the spreaders as an anchor point for the ram is only an option I've offered if you've removed the B pillar already.
Both Holmatro and ICET promote the use of the spreaders in this fashion. They can actually handle the forces and pressure involved in such an evolution.
Do all things as you would for any other dash roll such as, relief cut at base of A pillar, chock up under B pillar, or in this case the spreaders. Place ram and roll as per normal.
You're right about committing the spreaders to this technique, but in our case, we have 2x spreaders, 2x cutters and 2x rams.
Check with your tool distributor and if they say you can, give it a go...
03-16-2002, 11:25 PM #9
I read what Ten8_Ten19 said just before me (you must have posted while I was writing) and he mentioned a winch and it got me to thinking about one of those little used, often forgotten tools and techniques of using a come-a-long... (relegated to second thoughts since hydraulics have become more common place.)
I have only used this once "out on the street" when the hydraulic tools were being used on other vehicles, however, I have preformed this many times during practices and training (I like throwing it a new guys to see how they react to something "unconventional").
Anyways, we set up a come-a-long on the hood, anchor it over the front of the hood/bumper to the underside of the vehicle with what we call a ladder cribbing (2X4s with straps, looks like a ladder) between the chain and hood to distribute the pressure of the chain along a wider surface. On the other end, the chain gets wrapped around the steering column, not the wheel, the column. Between the come-a-long and the steering column we build a "slide crib," which is two 4X4s on the hood, parallel with the side of the vehicle, and one 4x4 across them (sorta like building some box cribbing on the hood). The chain runs over this so when you pull the steering column with the come-a-long the 4x4 on top will slide on the two on the hood and the ladder cribbing around the front end will spread the force of the come-a-long out.
Ok, I guess what I am getting at, is that every single time I have done this, not only has the steering column moved, but it also displaces the dash along with it. Of course, this can only be done on the drivers side (whatever side that is in our neck of the woods). It works pretty good. In the scenario I used it "in the street" to free the pinned legs of the driver. Also, I have used our combie tool or spreaders in place of the come-a-long. We have a chain package that allows us to hook the ends of the chain to the tips of the tools. You open the spreaders or combie tool all the way and hook the chains up, then close the tool (using the same cribbing as discribed above). It works pretty well, however, you are tying up a tool that could be used to lift the dash, etc.
Also, like all tools and techniques, there are limitations. IE, you can not do this on a vehicle with tilt steering or front wheel drive. Why? Well, you are pretty likely to bust the steering column at its pivot point, which would swing it into the chest, (or maybe worst, the groin) of who ever is unlucky enough to be sitting there (ouch)...
Ok, I am off topic now. I just wanted to point out that there are many other ways to skin a cat, or in this case, displace a dash.
Last edited by firefighter26; 03-16-2002 at 11:29 PM."No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."
03-18-2002, 03:28 PM #10
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- Sanford NC
we perform a dash roll
check out our site
Lee County rescue
I have put some of our training pictures on there.http://www.lcrs.8m.com
03-19-2002, 10:59 AM #11
FF26,That works OK on rear wheel drive or suv. but not a good idea on frt wheel drives with u-joints that are just under the dash.These have a nasty habit of snapping off and swinging when you pull on them vertical to the front.I'd cut the steering wheel ring before I'd pull on a front wheel drive column.Just my thoughts based on some destructive testing.T.C.
Last edited by Rescue101; 03-19-2002 at 11:38 AM.
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