1. #1
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    Default Female firefighters and "Brotherhood"

    First off, a disclaimer: I DO NOT have a problem with anyone of any gender, color, etc.. as a firefighter, provided they can do the job. I will even admit that diversity is a wonderful thing. That said:

    I was offended by the article about the female firefighter from FDNY complaining about the female members being "left out" because none of the firefighters KIA at the WTC were women. "if this had happenned someplace else, there would've been 20-30 women dead". Be thankful. It was just a coincidence that they were spared and some of the guys weren't. There are some kinds of equality that aren't all they are cracked up to be.
    Why is all the talk about the deeds of the 'firemen' and the 'brothers' upsetting? Thats what they were, men. If a single woman had died we would be hearing everyone talk about the "firefighters" and "brothers and sisters". If anything, her death would have been even more "newsworthy"-look at the coverage of the female cop they already named a ferry boat after. Again, God bless her, she and all the responders who died heroically.

    There is a time and place for gender issues. This tragedy isn't it.

    Females get killed in the military now, and it barely makes the news. The time will come.

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    Thumbs down

    When I read the same article, I was trying to find some rational thought behind what was being said and not coming up with one. The only thing which sticks out to me is that she again is one of those who had to 'sue' to get on......nuff said.

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    Angry

    IN THIS TIME OF NEED AND DARKNESS WE HAVE BEEN PRESENTED WITH POSSIBLY OUR FINEST HOUR....WHY DO WE AS BROTHERS (MALE AND FEMALE) HAVE TO ACT SO DAMN PETTY??? WE ARE A BROTHERHOOD UNLIKE NO OTHER...IT'S HIGH TIME WE RECONIZE AND LOVE EACH OTHER!!!!
    When hell comes to breakfast, who else would you want, besides a firefighter!!

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    Angry

    First, it was the politically correct firefighter statue. Now, there weren't enough women firefighters lost. What's next? Has anyone realized....they were all CAREER firefighters?

    Dear BROTHERS in heaven, rest assured that the majority of us will never lose sight of what you did that day.

    FTM
    "Greater love hath no man than this; that a man lay down his life for his friends."

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    Default I Bet Few Want the "Honor" of Being KIA

    I was struck by her comments. I don't know of a single firefighter that wants the "honor" of being killed or injured in action. If I come across one, I'll try to make sure that I watch them carefully on every call. I'm sure that FDNY would be glad to go years without the "honor" of loosing a member. I'd be willing to bet that as a group, they would be thrilled if the WTC attack never happened.

    I realize that words and symbols are important, and we do need to acknowledge the contribution of all emergency service personnel, including minorities, but to worry about PC language instead of worrying about those lost and the loved ones left behind is a gross error in priorities.
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

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    Default Re: Female firefighters and "Brotherhood"

    Originally posted by gunnyv
    I was offended by the article about the female firefighter from FDNY complaining about the female members being "left out" because none of the firefighters KIA at the WTC were women. "if this had happenned someplace else, there would've been 20-30 women dead". Be thankful. It was just a coincidence that they were spared and some of the guys weren't. There are some kinds of equality that aren't all they are cracked up to be.
    Why is all the talk about the deeds of the 'firemen' and the 'brothers' upsetting? Thats what they were, men.
    Gunny:
    You weren't the only one who had a negative reaction to this story. I considered starting a similar thread but chose not to because I didn't think this was the right time or place. Suffice it to say, I agree with your observation about the statement that was made.

    All I have to add is...typical, classic Brenda Berkman all the way. In fact, I was almost expecting this, or a similar statement to spout forth from the radical fringe.
    Last edited by SquadHog; 03-18-2002 at 05:30 PM.
    "Go ugly early."

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    Gunny, it would seem that someone got a piece of sand stuck in thier you know what. Take it from a former Doc it wont be there forever and thank God we did not loose more brothers. I guess you just cant please everyone all the time.
    Matt

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    Default An Open Note to Brenda Berkman:

    Suing your way onto FDNY is NOTHING to brag about. You didn't make your way honestly, but essentially by throwing a hissy fit. What a terrible example. Your self-proclaimed representation of the world's Female Firefighters needs to come to an end. Just who do you think you are?

    How sick are you to complain that there weren't enough female firefighters at Ground Zero killed? Count your blessings and quit hogging the spotlight. Your BROTHERS died. Let them rest in peace and give them the respect they deserve. Heaven forbid if you do lose your life in the line of duty, I'll mourn your loss of life, but certainly not the tarnished legacy you seem to cherish so much.

    You're a terrible icon for female firefighters let their actions speak for themselves.

    You sure as hell don't speak for me, or any other firechick I know. Keep it that way.
    Spec. Krista M. Aukeman, United States Army

    Some day, in years to come, you will be wrestling with the great temptation, or trembling under the great sorrow of your life. But the real struggle is here, now, in these quiet weeks. Now it is being decided whether, in the day of your supreme sorrow or temptation, you shall miserably fail or gloriously conquer. Character cannot be made except by a steady, long continued process.
    - Phillips Brooks

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    Thumbs up

    Another Sister with the PROPER attitude...outstanding post!!

  10. #10
    iceman4442
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    Thumbs up

    Amen D Kelly!

    Very early in my career as a volunteer FF, I had my a** saved by one of our department's "firechicks" as she used to refer to herself!

    (The fact that she could drink, cuss, and spit better than me and lift at least as much probably helped!) Hoisted me through a hole that opened up pretty much right under me on the 3rd floor of a working fire by herself!


    Stay safe!


    P.S.: (Thanks again CeCe!)

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    Thumbs down

    I read the same article in my local paper yesterday and said to myself "Here we go!". I saw no rational reason for this article being written or the question being asked. Why weren't there lots of women killed? Because statistically there were more men - wow - big revelation!

    This was not a matter of bias of any kind - they should be grateful they were not among the dead, mourn the ones who were with respect and go back to doing their jobs like everyone else.

    Participating in an article such as that was asking for trouble. I don't know what they were thinking.

    I've said it before and I'm sure I'll have to say it again - do the job and go home like everyone else - draw attention to yourself because of your sex, color, religion etc. and you take the attention away from your competance, dedication and abilities (the things that actually matter).
    Susan Lounsbury
    Winston-Salem Rescue Squad
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    Default

    I definitely have to say, suing onto a job in the public or private sector is not the way to ever get a job. For as long as you are on the job, you will always have a stigma of being hired because of a law suit and not your own personal merits. Then to complain. I suppose this is to be expected because all people do nowadays is complain about this and that and that. Gotta love it.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    If females HAD lost their lives at the WTC, would this same woman be spouting, "Thank goodness women were lost"?????? I don't get her!

    ``There were all sorts of stories of how men did this, men did that, how all the firefighters killed were men,'' she said. ``Somehow that's being used to prove there shouldn't be women firefighters. But if this happened almost anywhere else, there might have been 20 or 30 women firefighters killed.''
    Sorry you're so disappointed.

    Some people will stoop to anything to get headlines. Very sad.
    Last edited by jdm2267; 03-18-2002 at 09:47 AM.

  14. #14
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    "firechicks" RULE........MY soon to be wife is a Firechick of almost 3 years now....And she love's what she does...
    Lieutenant
    Joel Chouinard
    Rescue Co. 106 "When Push Comes To Shove"
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    Cairns Leather, the only choice!

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    Crashbandicoot bgfdchick...

    Excellent post!

    It's apparent that Brenda Berkman took a few lessons from Rev. Al Sharpton and appointed herself the spokeswoman/icon for firefighters of the female sex!

    I nominate you instead! Any seconds on the motion?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I second!

    All in favor? Say Aye!

    Aye!
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  17. #17
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    I proudly stand before my brothers and sisters and heartily second that motion!!
    Steve Gallagher
    IACOJ BOT
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    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

  18. #18
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    All in favor? Say Aye







    Aye
    Lieutenant
    Joel Chouinard
    Rescue Co. 106 "When Push Comes To Shove"
    Engine Co. 307 "Pride Of The South Side"
    Cairns Leather, the only choice!

  19. #19
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    Thumbs up ALL THOSE IN FAVOUR?

    What impresses me most about Crashbandicoot bgfdchick, is not that of her gender, but that she is a person with her head screwed on properly.

    I don't think there is much room in the Fire Service for "Political Correctness", or even politics, but there definetly is for a team player!

    We all have our own personal strengths and weaknesses in our job, but together we overcome them. Gender is not a weakness and diversity can be a strength.

    Stay safe.


  20. #20
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    Default

    NCRSQ751,it was also on the front page of our paper here. I just groaned when I saw it.Needless to say my letter to the editor is making its way to the paper right now.

    Suing your way onto a dept is not something to be proud of, it is an embarassment. If I'm going to be in a dept, its because I got there on my own terms and not because the courts told them to let me in.

    It is women like this that keep the barriers from coming down in the fire service. Just remember, for every female that sues her way into the dept, there are 20 of us out there busting our butt, doing what we have to do for the job we love.When I'm working a job, I dont see a male or female next to me, I see a fellow firefighter, and thats the way it should be.

    crashbandicoot_bgfdchick, you go sister!!!((((high five))))))
    All in favor? Say Aye!
    Aye!!

    Lady.
    "Let every nation know..that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and the success of liberty"---JFK, Jan.1961

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    Angry DOUBLE STANDARDS

    Like many others that have responded to this, I am disgusted at the selfish, self-serving remarks this women has made. I don't have a problem with women in the fire service, but I do very much with double standards. To "sue your way in" and to some how feel proud of that fact is repulsive. To be at your brother firefighters furneral and to worry about how "invisible" you were, makes me want to puke!! How can women feel like they belong in the fire service when they have to have double standards to get in. In effect being job theives! Do you really expect the male firefighters to welcome you with open arms. You didnt prove yourself. "Minneapolis...The department offers training to help women prepare for the test and will consider any applicant who passes, not just those with the highest scores." What the hell is that!! Your job theives, if thats how you get in, you don't deserve it. If its attention you want, well you've got it. You make it harder for you, and your (better) female counterparts.

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    AYE!!!
    Rob

    "Well done is better than well said" - B. Franklin

  23. #23
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    Thumbs up

    She's got my vote!

  24. #24
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    AYE.
    Dean Urquhart
    I used to only have One President, Charleton Heston, then came George. Now I'm lucky enough to have a third.... Capt Gonzo

  25. #25
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    Smile

    AYE for crash! If all female firefighters had her attitude the gender issue wouldn't exist.

    BTW, when I started this thread, I expected some "politically correct" responders to rip on me. I was afraid some would misunderstand my point. I'm glad that my feelings were not misconstrued.

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