1. #1
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    Default What's It Worth to You?

    I was impressed with the response when the call went out for "Instructors Needed". Instructors all around the US and even across the Big Pond were willing to help out.

    This thread got me to thinking, so here's my question. How much would you be willing to pay to attend a 16-hour vehicle rescue class as a student? Say you get 4 hours of classroom and 12 hours of good hands-on work. I've seen good classes offered for free...others $25 per person. There used to be an annual seminar here in Texas that cost $300, but you got a FREE T-shirt so that made it all seem worthwhile.
    The Firehouse Expo seminar that I conduct each year costs the participant over $300 per person and that's just for 8 hours.

    What's good extrication training worth to you?
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

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    I beleive that an individual who is seriously considering furthering their knowledege and abilities should investigate the class that they are paying a substantial amount for. I am willing to pay for what I feel I will receive in return. I check out the syllabus, instructors, lesson plans etc prior to signing up. The State of South Carolina provides a basic program (16 hours) with field instructors certified by the SC Fire Academy at a minimal price (25.00, covers books etc)and is worth it. This helps the many volunteer departments which do not have large training budgets. The State picks up the tab for the instructors salary etc. I think the gain that can be had by learning from certain programs is not something I can put a dollar amount on, however, I cant be blind to the fact that money has to be a consideration. I would not want to pay 300-500 dollars and show up and there be 50 students in the class, I think class size is a big issue also.
    etaylor

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    Ron this a good Question, I am part of Upstate Extrication Technicians! We are a group in Upstate NY, (I know you know us Ron, just put this in for those unaware) We are organizing a one day seminar in your old stomping Grounds of Henrietta NY, on April 27th of this year. We are chargnig 25 bucks for 5 speakers from various regions in the north east. It should be a good show. But got to bring up the point that there are a lot of hidden costs in putting on a seminar such as publicity, meals (if included) tools, and support for the tools, insurance and so on! Since I am one of the persons that helps organize this event in Henrietta (a suburb of ROCHESTER), I think it is important for us to know what the market (You the persons that attend our classes and seminars)want from us the providers. If you want info on our Seminar contact Jim & Carole Greene at: jammerg@frontiernet.net
    Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
    Carl D. Avery

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    This is one that always confounds me. On one hand, I feel an instructor needs to be properly compensated for their time and expenses. At one time, I was involved in the planning process for starting an Extrication Training group so I know what kind of numbers we are talking about when you look at moving instructors and their equipment around the country. On the other hand, I have seen some schools being put on by a tools manufacturer that cost a good deal and wind up being a commercial for that company's tools.

    That is why it is a good idea to reseach and ask questions before you commit to a school. Especially if you are going to pay money out of your own pocket to go to it.

    We have been fortunate at the Wayne County (OH) Fire School to find instructors who are willing to work around our budget. Many times they will give up their weekend for free as long as we cover their travel expenses. This way we can keep the school affordable ($30 per day) for those who have to pay for their own training.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that there is some potential for liability on the instructors' parts, so this could also explain the high costs for some of these classes. Yet another problem with our law suit happy society here in the USA.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    Connecticut state courses usually run about $75/day...little less for some, little more for others. Double for industrial or out-of-state departments. Classes at the Fire Academy include a pretty good meal; at local departments you buy your own.

    Another popular program in New England, Meadowood Area in New Hampshire, charges $45/day.

    Our local fire school probably is around $50/day level but I can't find their literature -- does include a meal, of miscellaneous white protein (wether it's fish, chicken, or pork, well, you can't really tell...)

    Barnstable County, MA runs about $90/day for outside departments, free for Barnstable County departments

    A $300/day class, which is three to six times the expense of similiar programs, is an eyebrow raiser.

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    Here is a caveat to the original question, what is the ideal student to instructor Ratio? Especially when you are plopping down $300 Bucks more or Less. If the course is with a "PREMIER" Instructor, and he or she has assistants/associates to what level are they, or should they be, trained and supervised. It is one thing to pay 300 bucks and get direct access to the Likes of Ron Moore, Steve Kidd, Dwight Clark and the like, but when it is HOT (Hands On Training) Time, who is working with YOU and who should be?
    Last edited by Carl Avery; 03-25-2002 at 12:37 PM.
    Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
    Carl D. Avery

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    Default Move to Oklahoma--it's free here!

    In Oklahoma, the state provides fire service training for Oklahoma firefighters. Classes are usually free (sort of...we're paying for it with our taxes). Basic vehicle rescue is free for students, but the hosting agency must provide the vehicles to be used.

    I would personally be willing to pay $50 (without really considering it) for the 16 hour course that they offer here. Any more than that, and Id want some details on why I should dish out the cash.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

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    I took the NYS Extrication 16 hr class when I first got into the fire dept and personally I learned alot of good stuff. Im not sure what the cost is to us to take the classes b/c the county will pick up the tab for the class so long as the FF completes the class.
    Class size should be manageable and allow for adequate time for students to actually get to practice what they learn without having to feel rushed to get things done.

    To ffemt1034.. I was at one of the UET seminars in Henrietta both as a person who helped Jim and Carl with some of the leg work and behind the scenes stuff and as a student. Think what you may about these guys but at least they are trying to help educate their collegues in this area. I know I walked away from there with a little more than when I went in that day, and Im sure I will again this year. If I learn one thing that keeps me safer on an MVA scene, then their efforts will have paid off in my opinion.

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