1. #1
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    Default Delayed Ambulance, What should be done?

    I was wondering, I do that a lot! Is there anyone who has a fire department out there that has slow ambulance responces. In a local fire disfrict, our second due district, there is a department that ALWAYS takes about 6-9 minutes to respond to the firehouse to get on the road with the ambulance. Sometimes they don't answer up, that has happened twice today and we had to go in place of them. Twice in one day is a lot! What do you think I could do to protect the people on that district? Do any of you have the same problem?

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    Well the district can either go in for guys during the day and hope you have decent response after people are home from work. or your going to have to go out and pay a private company like AMR or whatever to cover your area, either w/a roving bus or based out of one of the stations.
    Member IACOJ & IACOJ EMS Bureau
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    As always these are strictly my own opinions and views

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    If this is as big a problem as you claim it to be, and I am sure it is, then maybe the problem needs to be explained to the citizens in that district. If they are made aware of the problem then they should be allowed to determine the course of action to take. If it is as serious to them as it is to you they will develop a plan to correct the problem. I think too many times we want to tell the public what they need and therefore should be willing to pay for instead of letting them determine the level of service they deem acceptable. What we see as unacceptable may be perfectly acceptable to those that must pay for the service. Give the citizens an opportunity to choose what they want.

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    Default Please elaborate....

    Ryan:

    In other words, your neighboring ambulance is dispatched, everyone waits 6-9 minutes for them to respond, nobody shows up, dispatch realizes they are not going to respond, your station is dispatched to cover their call????? Is that the sequence?

    Do you have a governing EMS, etc council that overlooks EMS-related issues?

    This sounds like a serious problem.

    Thanks

    John

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    Ryan,

    No offense here but it seems you get involved in asking some questions that are way out of your area of control. In other words, you are asking what to do about something that you as a CADET have no control over.

    Your focus is on the wrong issues. You need to focus on watching, learning, training, studying and preparing yourself for a career in firefighting unless (from the questions you ask) you are preparing yourself to be a civil lawyer.

    If it is a volunteer department, them not responding is going to happen. Sometimes 1 time...somtimes 2 or more times in a day. They may not be as fortunate as your department to have the people available during the day. That is why there is a mutual aid or mutual response program in place. It appears to be working. A quick fix to the problem is to have them notify the dispatch center when they are unstaffed and have the next ambulance dispatched automatically.



    But...again...you are digging into something that you have no control over. Leave it to the administration. TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN.


    EDIT>>>>>After making this post I received a warning from the webteam via EMAIL (see the post below by webteam) for "blasting" Ryan. Perhaps I worded my response in the wrong way and I am therefore issuing an appology to Ryan if I offended him in any way. My appologies.
    Last edited by captstanm1; 03-26-2002 at 08:07 AM.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    Default Egads...

    I'm gonna go in defense of the good cadet here. Captstannm1, yo, dude, ease up. He might be cadet, but as a cadet, he is sticking his nose into something that will quite likely affect him within two years. I'm quite shocked, and pleasantly surprised that a cadet is thinking that hard about the service, as opposed to FIRE... BLUE LIGHTS... WIG WAGS... WHATS YOUR STROBE PATTERN!? that we see too often. He asked a simple question.

    Indeed, this does seem to be quite a problem. We don't have that problem around here locally, but there is an agency in our EMS region that is known for that sort of thing. One of the problems sounds like they just don't have enough people. Perhaps a recruitment drive is in order? More members = better chance of responding members? Another idea is, here, we use 'shifts', which people sign up for a few weeks in advance. You don't have to sit at the station 24 hours a day, but you are required to come to the station if toned.

    Just some ideas.

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    Default

    Thanks for the defense and I like that the everyone can make a difference in whatever they set their mind on, and after all isn't that why you are in the fire service. I am sorry if I offended any of you guys who think that I am over my head but I want to save people and that is all that is important to me, and if it is not to you then I think that fire service is not your kind of hobbby!

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    then I think that fire service is not your kind of hobbby![/
    Hey Bud

    Take the good CaptStan's advice along with:

    "Better to sit by and look like a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."

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    No need to blast someone for asking a question here folks.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

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    Default

    .

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    Smile

    Ok, I'm gonna take a shot a "past experience" reply.

    Although our volunteer department does not provide ambulance service in our community we do work along with the contracted service and provide them with support services.

    We believe the personnel who provide this service are utmost professionals in the job that they do but when the response times of their second and third out units began to increase dramatically, we naturally became concerned for our citizens.

    Our approach to the situation--document, document, document.

    We monitored runs. We documented times. We documented weather conditions that would effect times.

    We took all of the information we compiled to out township trustees. They in turn took it to the Board of Directors of the ambulance service. None of it was done in a confrontentional manner. The personnel were always reminded that the care they gave was never in question. We simply wanted to point out that the call volume was increasing and the possibility that another crew may have to be put on was an ever increasing possibility.

    We were fortunate. The Board took out "educated argument" as an indication that the growth of our area may indeed require equal growth of the ambulance service.

    The key to our whole "argument" was to NEVER EVER be confrontational.
    Always be sure to let the crews know that their care is not in question and document, document, document.

    Best of Luck....

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    What is the end result you want to achieve?

    1) Do you want them to be self-reliant and stop calling you?

    2) Do you want to be called in sooner than 6-9 minutes?

    or is there another goal you are setting for this problem?

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    Default

    No need to blast someone for asking a question here folks.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

    Hmmm...heres how I see it...
    The Captain is giving his opinion to a kid who is a cadet, who has very clearly identified his name, station phone and company affiliations. A kid who isnt old enough to ride on a fire truck but us trying to evaluate response time issues.

    If I was the fire chief in Pittsville MD, and I came across this, I might be taken back a bit. Its all about knowing your place and whats proper and improper. This young man may be more mature than some other kids his age, but by identifying himself as he has, he is essentially assuming a role as a representastive of his department and by telling people and advertising his affiliation and status as a cadet it makes it even more distressing to some of us.

    I'm glad to see a young kid with interest and apparantly foresight, but the choice of how to convey that is less than appropriate (in my opinion).

    I don't see the Captains post as an attack, I see it as an elder pointing out some wise advice to a young person

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    And if I was his fire chief, and came across this board, I'd be impressed that someone was out looking for answers to a problem that more then likely did not pop up over night.

    I'm just a lonely EMT in the big ol' state of Illinois working on a little service in the cornfields. But if there's a problem about my service, and I'm interested in seeing about how to fix it, I'll come here and ask it.

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    M.G. Well said.

    In spite of protests to the opposite, it is indeed young cadet ryans right to bring this issue to the appropriate authorities. However what was said to him was no "blast" merely good advice to a youngster who could take this to a Chief officer or civilian authority. He SHOULD be studying, as I am quite sure he does, but when one enters these forums and somebody gives an opinion should they be "slammed" for apparent "blasting". No.

    As for the young cadets use of the term hobby, he should be informed that, semantics aside, this is no hobby, but deadly serious.

    The cadet has come up with excellent questions and answers in the past. He, like all of us, open ourselves to critical views on here. Lets not throw him a lifering when he is treading water just fine.

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    Once again, the thread has become the discussion rather than the thread subject.

    We receive complaints or concerns from users and we act upon them. Things on the Internet, wording, etc. can be taken in multiple ways.

    By using this service you agree to the terms of service and lately these issues have become more and more regular as more and more users use this service.

    All users should keep in mind you are granted license to this service when you register. The rules of free speech do NOT apply here. This is a private service and your ability to post and participate can be limited or revoked at any time.

    Those instances are few and far between, but do happen. Someone should not be questioned for why they ask a question. He was just asking a question, regardless of how its worded.

    Of course a cadet is not going to have control or be able to do much about the situation now...but neither is the average firefighter who does not have a leadership position or access to the leadership's ears for the most part without backing from the rank and file.

    This is not a new problem which is why we acted quickly for folks to tone down their posts a little as in the past when a senior member starts questioning a younger member's posts the end result typically turns into a one on one discussion with no positive discussion.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

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    Dear Cadet Ryan:

    In response to your inquiry, clearly stated here:

    Is there anyone who has a fire department out there that has slow ambulance responces.
    Yes it is a problem in many communities

    What do you think I could do to protect the people on that district?
    Bring the matter to the attention of your local government. You will also help that district by studying and supporting your own district. If all politics is local, then certainly firefighting is local, in my opinion. In the future you will be able to make an impact but take to heart what has been said here. You will make a fine Pittsville FF. Good luck and God Bless you.

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    Hey Ryan,

    I first would like to say that for a cadet you have a sharp and keen "Fire Management " sense developing to make a observation such as this. Please keep developing that and pay attention to it when you start to see things that may be out of sorts.
    For second I can some what understand , I believe, where the Capt. was comeing from with his reply. As a fire cadet there may be some situation surrounding the response problems that seem to be happening with the other department that he may not be aware of, and even if this not so, by observing and learning from what is taking place, it will educate him in to what can or cannot happen if he is ever again faced with the situation in his fire career. Even if he is not in a place to effect the situation at this time in his life, the next time he might be a Fire Officer, or chief and will have a basis for which some action can be taken and effected by him.
    Third, I recommend to oyu to take this to one of the Officers in your department, such as the supervisor of your cadet corps, or if nessacery to your chief. I recommend following the command system that you have in place, but be prepared to be recommended to bring it before oyur chief, as for sometimes they are the only person in a posistion that may be able to do something. And IF the non responders are a completely seperate department be prepared that unfortunately your department may not be able to effect the situation in any way other then remaing prepared to anwser the call when needed. I hope you understand and agree with this and please do not feel that I am trying to state any of this as a negative posting or "bashing" towards you. Good luck in your endevor and I hope you are able to make a difference.
    Last edited by JMyerE16; 03-26-2002 at 04:15 PM.
    These posts and replys are of my own personal beliefs and in no such way reflect the vies of any agency that I work or vollunteer for.

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    Default response

    In my province, the law (or might just be policie) is that a ambulance has to be in drive no more than 3 min after the tone out. Now that's for a full time. On a volunteer basis, it's 10 mins to get from home to the truck and in drive.
    Joel

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    If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

    **And of course these are only my opinion and only mine. Don't take it out on anyone else but me.**

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    For those of you that did not go back and read it...this is a cut and paste of an edit to my original response.

    EDIT>>>>>After making this post I received a warning from the webteam via EMAIL (see the post below by webteam) for "blasting" Ryan. Perhaps I worded my response in the wrong way and I am therefore issuing an appology to Ryan if I offended him in any way. My appologies.

    Additionally, I appologize if it was perceived as an attack. It was not in any way meant to be that way.

    Ryan.....work hard, listen, study, train and be safe.

    Stan
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    Thanks for all your imput and thanks to the webteam for defence, I am going to see if I go to the EMS Board meeting to exprese the way a feel and the community they protect. Since I have posted this post it happened one more time. I am sick of it. I don't mind taking there calls but it is the fact that they don't answer and put someone life in danger. Again thanks and input is still welcome just wanted to let you know that I am going to an EMS Board Meeting soon and I will get back with you and what they say.
    THANKS!

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    A proper decision! Best of luck to you.

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