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    Default Stabilizing the rollover

    I have been having discussions lately on effective ways of stabilizing the complete rollover,(vehicle lying completely on the roof). I know there are many ways to accomplish an effective stabilization, if anyone has any pictures or explanations of their procedures during a situation such as this it would be greatly appreciated, I am trying to compare different techniques which are used in the rollover and situations involving different types of vehicles. Thanks, ET
    etaylor

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    Lightbulb

    TC Struts from Rescue 42.

    www.rescue42.com



    In this case, there was no good purchase point for the struts, so they made some with the metal piercing point. Timed set-up of the struts was 1 min 12 seconds.

    Regards,

    Tim O'Connell
    www.rescue42.com

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    Check out cepcotool.com, they have a picture series on their website using Res-Q-Jack

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    There are many different types of "jacks" out. We use jimmi-jacks, but I understand many of the other air shores work pretty well. Each has advantages and disadvantages. I think using ratchet straps to secure the vehicle down on the jacks helps keep the vehicle even more stable.
    THE ABOVE REFLECTS MY OPINIONS AND IN NO WAY REFLECTS THOSE OF MY DEPARTMENT.

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    Bells, whistles and gadgets are great for this job, but for pete's sake, don't fail to teach how to do it with box cribbing... if you're special tools don't quite do the job, the old fashioned way might just be the ideal choice.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    Good point metal, I also typically use and have crews use box cribbing and a long 4x4 through the rear window usually the one behind the B or C posts. I don't have pics so I apologize, but there would be 2 sets of cribbing to support the long 4x4 on each side, it offers equal support.

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    And just to touch up on the pictures of the jacks with personal preference, if I or a member of my crew were to use jacks, I still would have them place a box crib in the rear where the trunk is in the event of failure. The jacks to me are a quick and effective fix, however, cribbing is an ongoing and dynamic event, and if it was going to be mor then just popping a door, the box cribbing goes in.

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    I do agree that rescuers should know all available procedures for stabalizing (including a box crib). You have to use what is available, and if one thing is being used for another purpose you have to use another way of accomplishing your task. I do not think that you need to set up a box crib in the rear if you are properly using jimmi-jack (or whatever brand). The main advantages of using them in the first place is their rating and the fact that they leave the back open for easier access. In the picture notice how much space the rescuers have in the rear. With a box crib, this space would be eliminated and rescuers would have to maneuver the patient around it. The jimmi-jacks are rated at 30,000 lbs, so there is quite a safety factor. Again though, if you do not have them available, you need to be able to box crib.
    THE ABOVE REFLECTS MY OPINIONS AND IN NO WAY REFLECTS THOSE OF MY DEPARTMENT.

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    Cris Pasto from Cepco Tool (ResQJack) has developed a quick and efficent method for stabilizing an inverted vehicle. Search for his site and check it out!

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    Here's just a thought for an interesting training exercise. Take a vehicle and roll it over as in the image that Rescue42 (Tim) posted. Then challenge your rescue team to use their existing inventory of rescue tools, equipment, and appliances (whatever that might be) to accomplish one assignment: total removal of the roof.

    If they can do that safely and successfully, then that crews understands Command, teamwork, vehicle stabilization, glass removal, roof removal, and patient safety.

    Has your crew ever tried this? Below is an image that will serve to get the discussion started within your department as to how to do this.

    Ron Moore
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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    Here's another rollover example. Note how a typical vehicle is "engine heavy".

    Do you have a plan for total roof removal as a training evolution?
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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    Here's a pickup truck rollover that shows the challenge of dealing with a vehicle with a relatively small roof structure.

    Could your team do total roof removal on a pickup if you had to in a training exercise?
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

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    http://members.aol.com/zmagrescue/ <~~~~ Check out ZMAG and http://www.rescuelogic.com/ <~~~ Check out RESCUELOGIC both of these guys were amongst the first to offer these concepts commercially contact these guys as they are both first rate Hands on Rescuers and they can and will share alot with you about how, where, when and why there products do what they do. There are others out there too, look before you leap into any of these, RESCUE42, CEPCO, ZMAG, RESCUELOGIC or others on the Market, Like everything all these tool have pluses and minuses shop befor you Drop your money! Speed, ease of set up, cost are all factors in these tools hope this expands your shopping and remember there are yet others to look at too
    Rescue is the Art & Science of matching your tools, talents and tricks to needs of our customers!
    Carl D. Avery

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    Ron,

    This is a training scenario at the Sunnyvale Extrication Symposium, but most of us have seen something similar in the field. This is an inverted minivan stacked on a full sized van (on its side). We give the students unlimited wood cribbing to box and wedge these. A crew of 8-10 rescuers usually take about a half hour or more (you try it...) to get some stabilization. They end up using 3 or 4 times a "normal" rescue vehicles load of cribbing. We also add the question of soft ground and/or incline so they don't just use wedges alone to stop slide and tip.

    Below is what struts (either mine or another brand. Do your homework before you buy...)can do. This entire stabilization job took 1 person 5 minutes! The scene was MUCH more stable than with the wood cribbing. Here's what was done:

    1 - A strut was placed to prevent the minivan from rolling or sliding toward us.
    2 - A strut was placed to stabilze the bottom of the van. More could be placed, but we were using the strut kit that would be carried on a typical squad or truck (4 struts).
    3 - a 10,000 lb. strap with a cinch ring is tensioned between the "C" post of the minivan and the bottom of the van to prevent the minivan from sliding to the left. Placing it on this side is more stable, and allows free access for the rescue crew from the other side (the safer side).
    4 - A strut with a screw jack head and spike foot is placed from the bottom of the van to the minivan to prevent roll away from us.
    5 - In the other photo, a chain cluster hooks a chain to the roof rail at the window and a strut grabs the other end of the chain to cradle the top of the van where there were virtually no purchase points. The metal piercing heads were not good here because the location of victims in the van was unknown, and the strength of the roof questionable.





    As a side note, I'll be teaching the stabilization section of the Monterey Extrication Symposium this week with... Dammit Boy, Dwight Clark! Always good stories at the dinner...

    Tim O'Connell
    www.rescue42.com

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    As an adder, this was a class...

    Obviously, in the REAL world, this would also have some cribbing, wedges, maybe a come-along or additional chains, stepchocks, etc.

    Tim

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    Hey there everyone. I was told to check out this conversation regarding stabilization and give my input. Well, I would like to first say that I am a manufacturer. I would like to say that looking at the post along with some pictures that there are a lot of gizmoes out there. At the RescueLogic website www.rescuelogic.com( by the way if you do a search for rescuelogic you will end up at a competitors website, hmmm )anyway, you will see that we don't have option after option just to make the tools "trick" ( in fact we have droppped some options because training showed us better ways using the standard equipment). "Trick" does not get the job done, training gets the job done. I feel that in the real world it is get the job done, "down and dirty" is the way. Who wants to spend time just trying to figure out which "trick" head would work best here,, when if you have trained you will know how to do the job with what you carry.
    Anyway, here is a picture of an inverted vehicle that has been stabilized using only standard epuipment. We just made a loop out of one of the straps and hooked the straps over the head of each unit. No chains or gimmicks. Please remember that the strap is the weakest link in these systems. If you add a chain into the job you may be getting yourself into trouble. We practice using only the components of the tools to do the job, again training.
    If you check out the website you see many "real world" accidents that the tools have been used on. You will also see a picture of an inverted pick-up that Ron was asking about, check it out.

    Mitch
    RescueLogic, Inc.
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    Last edited by RescueLogic; 05-15-2002 at 12:26 PM.

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    Here is a sho that may give you some ideas of how to stabilize an inverted pick up truck. It is best to only use the components that come with your equipment 1) less parts to store, 2)chains are much stronger than the straps provided with these types of tools, which could lead to excessive loading on the strap. Keeping it simple is the way to play.

    When you respond to an accident 47 miles out of town you need to work quick. Note that the struts are at a greater than 45 degree angle to allow for potential lift bag operations. Training tells us that the first plan may not alway work so we allowed for the possible need for plan b at the onset.

    Mitch
    www.rescuelogic.com
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    Last edited by RescueLogic; 05-15-2002 at 12:28 PM.

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    Your setup on the white car is extremely unsafe.

    If the angle is a little off or the srtap is wet it will slide right off the trunk and kill someone.

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    If both ends of the vehicle where being supported in the same manner I would agree, however the hood is solidly against the ground and the strap is tight enough that the bottom strap needed to be removed first. Also, this was not set up for use during a roof removal. I mentioned that I dont like to pound the heads into the panels but if this were to be a roof removal or clam shell operation then I would use the head into panel method ( allows more flexability) over this setup.

    Again training and use tell us what out tools can and can't do.

    Mitch

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    Hey Mitch, how ya been? I noticed in your posting about how another website pops up when searching for "Rescue Logic". I knew that we had this problem last summer so I checked again. Guess what!! That same one also pops up when you do a search for "Zmag Rescue". Maybe someone at Cepco tool can explain this to us. It seems strange to me that someone who puts so much effort into slamming our products would use our company names to lead people to his website. Why would someone who does not make,sell or promote our tools use our names with out our permission to lead customers to his website? This problem was taken care of when I approached him at the Baltimore show but now it has returned. Looks like some people have to be watched a bit closer. By the way, the words Holmatro, Hurst, paratech, air shore, crutch, alpha, and many others will lead you there also. I wonder what their legal departments think about that? I'll keep you posted Mitch, our paths should be crossing sometime soon.

    Mike @ Zmag

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    Default Alternate purchase points

    Here's a picture from a course I attended a few years ago. We were given an assignment of complete roof removal, and opted to set up our shores with the end caps inside the trunk area of the vehicle to eliminate any chance of them sliding on the exterior skin of the car.
    We wedged the front end of the vehicle and put stepchocks in the void where the hood meets the windshield as well.
    At the conclusion of the evolution, we tried to push the vehicle over and it was rock solid.
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    kbud - looks good, but one question...how easy would it be to remove a patient with your setup? It appears there is not much room left once the struts are setup in this fashion. That is one advantage of having the struts on the outside and spread farther apart.

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    Bones, I agree with you. This method of setting up the shoring pretty much rules out removal towards the rear of the vehicle. If the patient is located inside the vehicle, we would have to open up the doors/side of the vehicle for removal( and most likely would not have removed the roof).
    But for the picture I posted, our scenario given was a rollover with the patient ejected, now laying under the vehicle, no airbags available to conduct a lifting evolution. So setting up the shoring is this manner was not an obstacle.
    Check out the photo I posted in the "inverted minivan pt. removal" thread, plenty of room to remove an occupant out the rear of the vehicle.

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    Ok, I see the method now. I had asked how to do this in a related post, but now the last photo by Kbud, shows it all. I was misinterpreting how to do the roof removal. I was thinking in terms like removing the entire thing, and wondered how this was possible. Now I have the full idea, just cut the end posts and let it drop, thereby allowing access through the rear, as in the case of the photo. Thanks Kbud, that cleared up a lot of smoke and dust.
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