1. #1
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    Default Career Firefighters Causing Problems in Volunteer Firehouses

    Well people, since the Thread in the career section called "Volunteer Officers Commanding Career Personell" wa a hit, Lets try it on the volunteer section. How many of you out there in Combo Departments have problems with the Career staffing in your Firehouse? I know here we are subject to alot of Harassment by the career staff, especially if we work for another Fire Department. There have been Volunteers Assaulted by the career staff, fire apparatus destroyed by reckless driving of career people and a host of things. Is this Local only to my area, or is there other departments out there with the same problem?
    You Waste your time, YOUR LINE IS MINE!

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    The problem is not with the volunteer, the problem is not with the paid, the problem is with the egos.
    the truth never hides for long

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    Angry

    The last thing we need is yer another ****ing contest between career and volunteers. So STOP THE MADNESS

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    Thumbs up BRETHREN!

    CW – I gotta agree with 570 and Fire Line. I know where you are coming from because I believe we are from the same place, and only people from PG really know what the story is there and how things are. But that’s all these threads are, ****ing contests. What really needs to be discussed is what everyone thinks on how the rift can be mended. I will start by sharing my thoughts.

    What ****es me off most is the fact that a lot of career people think “all” volunteers should be either done away with completely or relegated to the most menial tasks in the fire service. They think because they get paid to do the same job as the volunteer that makes them more professional than the volunteers. Yes, one meaning of professional is “performed by people receiving pay” but another meaning is “having or showing great skill”. And by that definition that makes me more professional than a lot of career people.

    I probably put in just as much if not more time to my volunteer position than any career person puts into their job in a week. Yes there are some volunteers that have no business being on a fire truck, but there are also just as many career people that don’t belong either.

    So one suggestion from me would be for everyone to put their egos and pride aside and lets start working together on making sure the people on the apparatus are qualified and are there to do the job. Let’s work together on issues such as getting the proper funding from the politicians to ensure we have the proper equipment to do the job. And even work on making sure every station can get out on every call 100% of the time. This childish bull $hit about “I’m better than you” and “you aren’t $hit” is ridiculous.

    Just one of my opinions, Peace!

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    JAM and CW, I feel your pain. I'm a Volunteer in Montgomery County. We all remember Question E a few years ago. (Marylanders anyway)
    God bless all our brothers and sisters who have gone before us.
    "Funny thing about firemen, night and day they're always firemen" corny but true.
    *My opinions only. Has to be said*

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    Default Re: Career Firefighters Causing Problems in Volunteer Firehouses

    Originally posted by CW7704
    Well people, since the Thread in the career section called "Volunteer Officers Commanding Career Personell" was a hit, Lets try it on the volunteer section.
    Are you just looking to start a long thread? I don't call a thread full of bickering and egos a hit. I think it was "discussed" enough.
    570eck hit it on the head. These types of threads are getting as bad as the "does your volly dept let you have lights on your POV" threads, it's been beaten to death, let it rest in peace.
    David Brooks,
    Captain, NRFR
    Newmarket Fire & Rescue
    Newmarket, New Hampshire
    http://www.NewmarketFire.com
    (All opinions are my own)

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    Default FIREFIGHTERS ACTING LIKE ADULTS

    I have watched and posted on the thread from the Career section on this issue. What I have scene on the thread slowly started to sicken me. The first posts were constructive and talked about the various departments’ process when responding to another district. Then the volunteer bashing started and the post became a joke. I still read every post trying to get a few ideas that could be applied for my department. I am a captain, which means that there could be a possibility of working directly with a large paid department south of my town. I the past there was a good connection between our two departments (with many paid members coming from our ranks). I heard many times that we must have been doing something right in training, as the new hires really knew the job. I have been feeling a change in attitude lately. This maybe from the pressures of trying to get more paid personnel or some bad experiences at calls I don't know. All I can say is that I start with a respectful attitude when meeting new people and try and make the interaction positive. If I feel that the respect is not mutual, I will access the need of that company and release them ASAP. I don't want my guys to feel that I believe what is being said either verbally or non-verbally. This whole issue would just go away if everyone treated the firefighting job as a customer service function. It is very rare to see police departments with the same attitudes about their jobs. Yes I know they are paid, but the issues as to who gives the orders does not seem to be a problem with them. I Callaghan all volunteer members viewing this post to make every effort to bridge the gap between us. Let us be the ones that are big enough to mend the fences. Then maybe we can get the support from the government and increase our funding, equipment and training.
    "Fire Prevention is our Intention"

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    Haven't seen a fire yet that asked whether I was paid or volunteer. They all burn the same.

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    Originally posted by Bones
    Haven't seen a fire yet that asked whether I was paid or volunteer. They all burn the same.
    LOL, I noticed that myself
    David Brooks,
    Captain, NRFR
    Newmarket Fire & Rescue
    Newmarket, New Hampshire
    http://www.NewmarketFire.com
    (All opinions are my own)

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    Default One sentence, short and sweet...

    Been there... done that... moved on... beating a dead horse... bye.
    Firefighter/EMT Mitch Cowen
    Hose Co. 1 1st Lieutenant
    Randolph Fire Co. Inc

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    Default Sometimes I hate me!

    I sometimes fight with myself, as I am a career FF & a Vol.

    My problem is ...I just don't listen to me, and to be quite frank...I don't really care to hear what I have to say.

    I'm always telling me: "You career guys and your egos, HA"
    Then I turn around and call myself a "stupid volunteer"

    Sometimes I brag "I get more training and I do it without getting paid"
    Then I get mad "Your Vol. training is sub-par....unless it's waterball"
    Then I say "Hey, just a minute.... I'm the Chief of Training?!?!?!?"

    WHOA....I'm getting motion sickness!

    I think I should just stay away from mirrors.....Damn!

    Wake up!

    Do not perpetuate this kind of thinking.

    We are all Brothers (and Sisters)....and I love ya for it!

    We all know trouble makers, screw-ups, slackers, etc.....
    (and if ya don't know one ......he is you!)
    FTM-PTB
    trk4

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    Originally posted by Fire Line
    STOP THE MADNESS
    'nuf said!!!

    Amen!
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

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    Default

    Originally posted by Bones
    Haven't seen a fire yet that asked whether I was paid or volunteer. They all burn the same.
    ...Although I did get asked by a lady hanging out of a 3rd story window in a burning building if she could see my union card before I rescued her...

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    Unhappy

    I went into the Career post that was mentioned and it still amazes me along with some of the ones in this section. Now I myself am concidered an "On-Call" firefighter and have been with my department for 10 years, 9 of those years as a driver/pump operator. The stipend we get, which isn't very much per year, is out of the goodness of the town. We all would do it still if we didn't get it. I've even been asked at times on a scene by the I.C. to take the roll of the Staging Officer and Water Officer and such. I've had to cordinate trucks coming in from paid, call, and volunteer departments and have never had a problem at any time. The only time I see there's a problem is when, NOW I'M NOT BASHING, you get a person from a paid department with 3 years or under on the scene experience starting most of this trouble. Now through my years I have taken courses through the Massachusetts Firefighting Academy. The exact same classes and along side the career guys. NEVER have I had a problem with the more senior firefighters. The ones that say "Hey, what's that vollie doing here.", usually the paid rookie, get told by the seniors to shut-up and you might learn something you never knew from the vollie. The reason they do that is because us vollies have to wear many hats in our departments. We're not specialized in just one or two operations, we have to know ALL of them. And there's been times that a paid guy has come up to me at a scene and asked me stuff like how do I know how many p.s.i. I have to push out of my truck for a long lay of hose. In the city they don't have to deal too much with friction and applicator loss to get your maximum g.p.m..

    So what I'm trying to say is that we all can learn from each other as long at you put the attitude aside. The purpose of becoming a frefighter was to protect life and property . Not bash each other.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    I now return you to your regularly schedualed ranting and raving.
    The opinions I express are my own and not of my department.

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    I am a career, union firefighter who volunteers as well. I volunteer in a small town about 15 miles from my job. I have been there for the last 6 1/2 yrs and I have been on the job for 2 yrs. I don't bash volly's, I will bash FF's who don't do their job. Whether you do it for the love or for a job, you can still be a professional. It isn't about a paycheck, it is about how you do your job. When I am at the volly house I try to instill this in the new guys that come around. When I am there I take orders without problem, however if I see something that is overlooked or I question I won't hesitate to speak up. Some may see this as the paid man doesn't want to take orders, but it isn't the case. There are officers in the volly house that have 3 or less yrs. experience, these guys are more interested in the title than educating themselves. They are there because they kiss *** and make a lot of calls. Do I second guess these guys? Absolutely!
    Not just for me but for the other guys who are there as well. There is one Lt. who isn't even FF1 and sees it as a waste of time because
    "I'm a Lt. I know enough, I don't need that". Professional? I don't think so. If one is in a combination system, and the volly officers are in charge then follow the chain of command! Simple. The ego has to go. The combination system is becoming more and more prevalent in today's fire service, if both career and volunteer realize that it is better to be a PROFESSIONAL than to take an ego trip we will be better off. We can learn from each other. Just because someone doesn't get paid doesn't mean they can't do the job!

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    Thumbs up BRETHREN!

    PuffyNPFD - Thanks man, well said! But unfortunatly you may be the proverbial, one in a million!

    Peace!

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    Everybody and their kid brother knows it.....

    It's all about ego.....


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    Nope, the paid guys don`t cause any problems. They`re all former volunteers that got hired on, so it`s not like they`re there against their will or something. They do more then some of the volunteers, and we can always count on them coming to drive or whatever if we get something when they aren`t working since they`re still members.

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    We don't have a problem with the paid firefighters we work well together its the union that causes all the bad vibes.They want more jobs for thier members so they try to get us shut down.Its funny though that when the s**t hits the fan we are first to be called for back up and we often get called to provide water tankers and bush fire appliances because they have no suitable equipment.This also works both ways we have no airial appliances so we need them for that.
    The only way we are different is we don't take home a pay check and we don't have the money to buy the same quality appliances.

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    I was a vollie for 5 years before I got onto a paid dept. My vollie company was combo. We didn't have any problems between the paid and vols. When they had staffing problems they would ask us if we wanted to ride with them. When we had problems they would help us out. We all had to have the same certs. There are only 2 reasons why I quit the vollie house. I applied for a captains position and was told that the only reasons I put on the memo to the chief was because I was paid. Not true. I took all the training that I was able to get through both depts, I had more experience than the A/C, and had been in more fires than the Chief while I was a vollie. I work for a federal dept and have only had 1 fire in 3 years here, and that was in sept. I quit a year before that. The other reason I quit is because working 72 hours a week I only saw my family every other day if I didn't have to work O/T. I don't think there should be a difference between paid or volunteer. We should all be professionals.

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    Originally posted by 570eck
    The problem is not with the volunteer, the problem is not with the paid, the problem is with the egos.
    PREACH IT!
    Alan B.

    "Firefighters do it better in leather"

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    Brothers are brothers. Thats the beauty of the fire service. Even through disagreement we are a family. Stay safe!

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    We have both. Ego's are the problems on both sides. "We" have virtually had no problems, while some of our neighbors seem to have a patent on them. I believe the way our system is set up prevents problems. Most of the paid folks came from the volunteer ranks and even though they are employed by the Fire District their supervisor is the Fire Chief (Volunteer). Training (lack of), leadership, and egos are the root of all those problems.

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    We can all do without the egos. This goes for both sides.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
    Chief 1899-1911
    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

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    Cool paid personnal

    I volunteer in a town that has 4 co. that make up the dept. At one time there was one paid FF in each house just to drive the trucks. Well within the past 3 years our wonderful board of fire commissioners had this great idea to hire 1 more paid man. why? Have no idea why. See we live in an area that gets it's fair share of fires and then some. The amount of actual structure calls doesn't justify hiring anymore men right? Well now were up to 6 men. Keep in mind that these men were at one point all volunteers. Well there is this law called " Garcia Law" that states you can't work for the town you volunteer in. So there went our extra help. Now to top that off the commissioners have pulled them from all the houses except one. They all work out of one house but do their truck checks on all the other houses and any other maintance that has to be done all by traveling from house to house all over town in the fire trucks!! Wasting fuel wasted wear and tear and most of all the MORAL!!! See now they respond as a paid force,when a call comes in they are there before the volunteers. It is getting to the point where some guys don't answer calls between their working hours of 7:00am to4:00pm because they know they are getting turned around to many times. To make a long story short,"do I think that paid is ruining volunteers"? I don't think so but in a case like the one I just spoke about. YES!! Maybe not their fault but, sure the hell is the board of fire commissioners **** up!!! I would like to hear from anyone that has the simliar problem.

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