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  1. #1
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Question Dispatcher gripes

    First off I am not a dispatcher, but I have some issues for you guys and gals.


    1. Is it a problem to you to relay requests from one person to another ?


    The issue here is in reference to medical personell who come upon the scene on the way to the station and request dispatch to tell the first out to bring his gear. The EMT is following our dept protocol by stopping at the scene, and we must leave our gear on station.


    2. does it bother you to answer questions like "is PD enroute to or on scene of this injury due to a fight or a domestic"?

    Our 911 director for the county is saying that they will NOT relay requests for gear,and finds it insulting that we would dare ask if PD is enroute to those type of calls!

    Any input is welcome!!
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."


  2. #2
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    "1. Is it a problem to you to relay requests from one person to another ?"

    What kind of gear is EMT on scene requesting? Is it something that will be necessary once the Ambulance gets on scene? Is the EMT radioing dispatch to ask for this or calling them on the phone? Is it something that gets abused? I mean, does this happen on every call? If it doesn't I'd say that it would be no big deal. If it is something happening on every single call, most importantly by one individual then I'd say it is being abused. If the person is constantly crossing the scene enroute to station then they need to make other arrangements for thier gear. Do you call on scene? Would the other responding EMT's hear the arrival call? If they do, then they should have the initiative to grab that persons gear from the station.

    "2. does it bother you to answer questions like "is PD enroute to or on scene of this injury due to a fight or a domestic"?"

    What manner is it asked in? Do you ask it a lot? For the most part it is not a problem for a quick "Affirmative" or "Negative". But when you ask constantly then it comes across as you are questioning the inteligence and competence of the Dispatchers. That would be like asking your EMT's "I copied you are enroute, do you have the Ambulance and Defib with you?" You just have to see things through a different light. Dispatching is not as easy as everyone makes it out to be. When you are a dispatcher you have to talk people through things that are very difficult. You cannot use your skills and knowledge as an EMT as a dispatcher. That is beyond the Dispatcher scope of practice. You not only deal with EMS or Fire or PD, but you deal with all three and eveyone else. You also deal with the reporting party, the pt, the suspect, you name it.

    Hope that answers your questions... anymore just ask!

    *Mark

  3. #3
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    Wink



    The biggest misunderstanding between field units and dispatchers is mis-interpretation of radio traffic. I have been on both sides of the radio for over 7 years now, as a Dispatcher as well as an Emergency Service responder. Most Cops/FF's/EMT's have no idea what a Dispatcher does, and vice versa. If we dont understand why units ask certain things, and field personnel dont understand what we do and why, we get these kinds of problems.

    I actually had to explain to a Dispatch Supervisor who was a P.D. Lt. why I refused to send Paramedics into a house on a stabbing call because the officer on scene had not given a Code-4. He never thought about the safety issue for them. He was a Cop who thought nothing of entering a house with an armed subject inside and never thought of this type of call from an EMS perspective.

    That is why I believe ride alongs for both sides are so crucial. Dispatchers need to be in the field to see what goes on outside the Comm center and field personnel need to sit in dispatch and see what goes on "behind the microphone."

  4. #4
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Unhappy why gripe?

    I guess the thing for me is,(and I might be a little narrow minded here!)that I kinda feel that it's your job to give me the info I request and answer my questions. No matter how dumb they may seem. When these issues were brought up, we were told that they regarded our asking about pd as a slam to their professionalism. We were quick to point out that the real reason is more like this;I'm enroute to a stabbing from a domestic,I'm thinking about what I will find on arrival. Then it strikes me! Oh s@@#! I hope pd is there when I get there! I better call dispatch to make sure!

    My point is,I'm not thinking that dispatch can't be trusted to do the job. I just want REASSURANCE that pd is enroute. We are the ones going into harms way, and are understandably scared of the situation we may be getting into.(Anyone who says these things don't scare them is either a fool or a liar!)All we are wanting is to hear that the good guys with the guns are going to be there!!
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  5. #5
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    I think Sushiboy explained the stuff well.
    1835wayne, have you ever asked Dispatch if PD was on-scene and they weren't? Most of the time it is the PD requesting EMS on domestics. Maybe you ought to go buy them a donut and invite them to your drills. It is all just a misunderstanding on both sides. I wouldn't sweat it....

    *Mark

  6. #6
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    Ah, the wonderful world of dispatching!

    I dispatch for an air ambulance right now, but I occasionally get stuck behind the dispatch desk at my VFD. I also dispatched PD/EMS/FD for several agencies in rural Oklahoma for a while.

    Often, itís the way you ask that make all the difference. Next time, ask the PDís ETA instead of asking if they have called the PD.

    I donít mind relaying messages if they are truly necessary messages AND Iím not swamped with other things. I donít care if Iím watching grass grow because itís so slow, I donít want to call your wife to make sure she remembered to pick up milk on the way home. You have to prioritize everything when you dispatch. And donít forget, that includes documentation, incoming calls, outgoing calls, radio traffic and many other things. Relays generally get low priority with me.

    Good point about dispatchers not understanding what itís like on the street and vice versa. But donít discount all dispatchersósome of them old ladies have dispatched since they used cans and string!

    Just thoughts from a dispatcherÖ.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  7. #7
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Mark:As a matter of fact.... a neighboring dept was sent to a injury from a domestic and wasn't told the cause(IE-domestic!). Upon arrival, they were assaulted by the husband. Luckily,there were three of them and one of him. After managing to subdue the husband, they callaed dispatch to find out where the cops were and were told that they hadn't been dispatched due to the caller said he (the husband)had left. For some reason that dept ALWAYS asks about PD on those type of calls.

    Silver City:In the heat of the moment it seems guys can't think to ask for ETA's. But we're tryin'
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  8. #8
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    1835Wayne, that is a horse of a different color you said nothing about in the first place...

    If I rolled into a medical and was assaulted by an assailant (whether it is domestic or not) while rendering aid to an "assualt" victim I'd be kicking someones *****. Most likely the one pounding on me and then the dispatcher! Anytime there is an assualt LE should be enroute, that is just that plain and simple... From then on out, you bet I'd be asking if the Police are enroute. From that experiance I'd be questioning everything too! Please don't form your opinions on all dispatchers based on your experiances with a few. For the most part dispatchers strive to be the best there is.


    *Mark

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber ramseycl's Avatar
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    I have been on both sides of the radio and I see the frustration from both sides. One of the biggest problems that we have at dispatch is the units in the field have no idea what we are doing. They think that if we are not talking on their channel we are sitting up here doing nothing. I work for a combined center that dispatches for fire/ems, and several law enforcement agencies. What a lot of people don't understand is at any given time I can be monitoring 3-4 radio channels as well as answering 911 and non emergency calls all at the same time. If we are really busy it gets loud up here and sometimes we may miss radio traffic.
    I have also been working with the other dispatchers trying to give them a better understanding of what the units in the field are doing. Also all the new firefighters are required to come up to dispatch and sit for a couple hours. I am the only one up here with any experience with fire/ems operations. I believe the better understanding both sides have the easier things will operate.

  10. #10
    BUGGY5632
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    1835Wayne writes:

    1. Is it a problem to you to relay requests from one person to another ?
    It seems that your EMS system has a unique protocol that raises a couple of issues: Like why do you first respond to a scene without gear? You are just another rubbernecking bystander if you show up without any equipment. I am all for the Chain of Survival, but you are no good without PPE. Solution: Get a personal set of gear or have your SOG's changed.

    2. does it bother you to answer questions like "is PD enroute to or on scene of this injury due to a fight or a domestic"?
    Just like what Mark just said earlier, if you continuously ask this question and you get a snippy response, it would seem to me that "You think you can do my job better than I can." a domestic incident with an assault is a CRIME before it is an EMS call. A PD unit should be dispatched to the scene to secure it BEFORE EMS arrives. If you get there before PD, you should stage in an area that is safe away from the scene. If you decide to go in (considering that you have already been told that this is an assault or domestic) before the PD gets there, and you get hurt, then that is your own fault and not the dispatcher. I have made it a habit to place in my dispatches for EMS calls to crime scenes that "PD is enroute, scene is not secure." Personnel should be listening to what the dispatcher is trying to tell them, instead of trying to be the first one out the door and on the scene. There is no award for being the first one there. Listen to your pager, or read the ticket thoroghly, be sure you have all of the infomation prior to response, know where you are going, and what hazards you will encounter along the way. You are no longer part of the solution if you become part of the problem.

  11. #11
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    I have been in the Fire/EMS service a long time now and had many of the same gripes you all are talking about. Until a few months ago when I started dating one of our dispatchers and spending a little time down there and seeing what they really do. There job is much more that just telling you over the radio where your call is and why you are going. As far as asking if PD was dispatched to a domestic call why not say something like "Unit ## will stage notify us when PD secures the scene" with this if they have not notified PD then this lets them know you are requesting them. It also says hey I know you are smart enough to have already notified PD will you let us know when they say it is safe to enter the scene.
    Never forget the fallen.

  12. #12
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Mark440 wrote:
    1835wayne, have you ever asked Dispatch if PD was on-scene and they weren't?
    It's happened to us several times. We've been sent to potentially violent scenes, and they didn't have a police officer available. We didn't ask, and they didn't tell us. We stopped assuming that they had somebody on the scene a long time ago. Summer seems to be the worst time, since we have a couple of "projects" where large fights break out all the time when the weather gets hot. We'll also get calls to other unrelated fights, and the PD is tied up on these other brawls. The PD's dispatchers often don't think about letting us know that kind of information, so it's not unusual for us to confirm if they have somebody there.

    Nothing increases the pucker factor like going into a violent scene, and people still going at it with cruisers no where to be found. Not the cops' fault, but that's not gonna help me when it gets down to crunch time.

    BUGGY5632 wrote:
    I have made it a habit to place in my dispatches for EMS calls to crime scenes that "PD is enroute, scene is not secure."
    Great idea! That's all that any of us would need if it was just standard practice for all dispatchers to put that info in their dispatches. The rub comes when not all of them do it. If we would continually get that kind of information that the PD was either there, not there, or at least on the way or not, it would make our jobs a whole lot easier. It takes only a few seconds to give us this info. If I know I'm going to get that information, I don't have to ask, so nobody should be offended if I'm not given the info and I have to ask.
    Steve Gallagher
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    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

  13. #13
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    As a dispatcher when I dispatch FIRE/EMS into a sticky situation I always in the initial dispatch and report info broadcast whether the scene is or is not secure. I made it a habit long ago. I have walked into situations that were heated that I shouldn't have been in before, that is why I do what I do. I wish I could speak for every dispatcher across this country. But I can't. I wish I could help.

    *Mark

  14. #14
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    Our dispatchers will usually let us know that the cops have been notified and that the scene is not secure.
    Also, a polite way of reminding the dispatchers is to ask for an ETA on the cops.
    The problem is not always with the obvious calls (assaults, domestics, gun shot wounds, etc), but the suspicious ones where you just want a cop around to cover you ('unconscious' person in vehicle, man laying alongside the road).
    We also have the problem of sometimes not having anyone nearby. A trooper response can sometimes take over 30 minutes if there isn't one in the area.

  15. #15
    Forum Member Medic946's Avatar
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    Regarding the PD responding question: Where I work in South East Pennsylvania the dispatch center always tells you if the PD is responding/on scene and if the scene is safe or not. This is really reassuring for us unarmed paramedics. These guys/gals are great at giving all the info they have from the caller. It really makes my job easier.

    My previous employer's dispatchers hardly ever told you if the PD were coming or not, even though they had a protocol that mandated that they had to. So each time you ran on shooting/stabbing. etc you had to ask if PD was responding. They'd get ticked. But too bad, I'm looking out for me and my partner.

    We had the same problem with medevac notification. They were supposed to tell us upon going enroute if the helicopter was responding. They didn't If you asked. You got a snide "That's the protocol!" response. Problem was, if you didn't ask that was the time they didn't send them or the chopper was down for some reason and they didn't pass that on.

    It became very aggravating when you heard over the scanner the same dispatcher give detailed information to the responding fire unit. Since we were on different frequencies at the time, we had to utilize old scanners, which were unreliable in many parts of the county.

    I know I was pain the the ***** to some of those dispatchers, but I was trying get information I needed to stay safe and best impact my patient's outcome.

    Now that the rant is over. I'd like to say that I've spent time in various dispatch centers and even dispatched some myself when I was firefighter in the Air Force. Let me say, that I couldn't do it steady. Sitting inside for 12hr at a time, answering call after call, trying not to tick off the public, the fire chief, or your boss. You guys and gals that can do it.God Bless you.
    Nationally Certified EMS Dinosaur

  16. #16
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    A good dispatcher should handle things so you don't have to ask for the same things over and over.

    Heck, a REALLY good dispatcher will anticipate what you are going to need/want and have it working before you ask.

    Everybody has bad moments, but repeatedly making the same mistakes dispatching can be a real safety issue.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  17. #17
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    Default Just Wanted to Say Thank You

    THANKS FOR LISTENING

    This to all the dispatchers out there. Thanks for listening to all our gripes, open mikes, request for stuff over and over, not yelling back when we yell cause our requests for equipment/manpower isn't fulfilled in a nanosecond, and for the frequent smart-*** remarks or attitude when things are going well.

    I like to say this now and then. YOu all do a very difficult job and don't get thanks too often. This is from 13 years of being that thankless "bastard" on the flip side of the mic.

    I just have one other thing to say....

    I just hate when you set my station bells off in the middle of the night! How rude!!! LOL
    celer et audax

  18. #18
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    Default Dispatch/Field Relations

    I have worked in Public Safety for about 18 years. I have been a Fire Officer, EMS, and a Dispatch Supervisor at 2 different Fire/EMS Dispatch Centers and a Dispatcher/Trainer at a LE Center.

    Question # 1

    Do you work for a department that is volunteer, paid or combo? Is your gear in a separate room from the engine bay, locked in a locker or just hanging on the hook? I guess what I am getting at, are there enough providers responding to do the job or are you needed? If there are enough providers responding, does it slow them down to search for your gear? I prefer that each firefighter be given the choice of whether to carry their gear with them, but was this rule to stop people from responding to the scene so you have everyone at the scene and no one getting the truck. Don't laugh, it happens. Most centers work hard to reduce the amount of radio traffic so that you as a responder are able to tell someone you are trapped in a burning building or being shot at. I feel that this information would most likely be relayed without question. Now you as a responder are trying to first tell a dispatcher that you, DSN ###, needs someone to pickup up your gear from the station. That message is now most likely entered into the CAD and then rebroadcasted after the dispatcher tries to find someone approaching the station. Try timing how long you and a friend would tie up the air just to get all of that out. Another item that comes up a lot is whether everyone in the department is filling the airwaves with information also to the point the dispatcher cannot relay other information about the call, including scene safety.

    If staffing is an issue with your department, it is probably the same for other agencies that they dispatch for. If that is the case, maybe it is time for the membership to attend a 911 board meeting.

    Question # 2

    Most centers, in an effort to reduce repeating information, have adopted a standard dispatching script. For example, 3400, 3410 Assault, 123 Main Street, Battery Subdivision, Cross Street Amhurst, Scene is not Secure, Time Out 1422. When the unit goes responding, repeating the address, nature, and "scene is not secure" helps make sure they responder is clear of the address, call type, and Scene Safety. When the units stage, and advise they are at staging, dispatch can provide an ETA for LE if available. This makes the radio traffic structured, professional and everyone knows where and when they will know something. You should realize that if the caller does not tell the dispatcher that their fall was because they were shoved down a flight of stairs instead of tripping, then they do not have the info to pass on. If there is a doubt, inquiring if the scene is secure is far less abrasive than them dispatching a call and the words right after responding from you is "are PD enroute?". Often, even in a structured system, old timers will ask for the address before we can give secondary eventhough they know in two seconds we were going to give it to them. Also, are there questions that are repeated asked by each person as they go responding. In our paid departments, acknowledged each unit of the assignment and give secondary after all units were responding, if there was an extremely late unit, then we would repeat the info.

    In all, most dispatchers really put a lot of effort into keeping the responders safe and getting them home safely. We are the unseen faces that deal with the emotional callers, with a background of multiple radio channels and 911 lines and still work to answer all of them while entering everything into the CAD. Remember, while you are working one call, the dispatcher may be tracking 4-10 other calls. Very rarely do the Dispatchers get invited to department functions, personal thank you letters for a job well done, or positive PR. Most dispatchers are thrilled with any kind of interest that show field personnel know they too are professionals. Try to build good working relations with the dispatchers and if not already in place, consider a "Good" Comments Card.

  19. #19
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    Default Oh come on folks lets be realistic

    Let me say that, it might be a simple operation to expect your dispatcher to deal with things that you should take care of yourself, such as "gear" requests.. if you live in east peduka, ar population 36... but the communications professionals in most areas have a whole hell of a lot More to do then play these games... Wether they are "good and proffesional othe cheesiest ones on the air."

    I dispatched in a City of 80,000 fopr several years prior to my career firefighters job. I also dispatched in my vollie days, I though it would be cushey, sitting around waiting for the fuego, But lemme tell ya something , as The 1st civilian hired as a public safety dispatcher in that city to compliment 4 full time fire(becoming)P.S. with loads of experiance unde they're belts it was FAR from simple. 14 primary fequencies and 22 secondary or special freqs... 11 911 trunks, 12 primary 7 digit numbers for pd and 16 for the fd , plus extensions to forward routine calls to, your on the 911 trunk , talking someone through CPR pre arrival while monitoring the post arrival dpomestic as someone calls in a pursuit
    and the neighboring agency or state pd calls on one PL line while the FD across the river is calling in a multi car accident on the southbound 8 lane highway bridge multiple vehicle .. sorry you wioll be standing at your R1 scene with your thmb up your rear.... .... Sorry, but your priority is right around the bottom of the list... It's not that I cant or wont do the job, its just the way the crap stacks up...
    If you have ever heard FDNY when things were hoppin all transmissions are " engine 73 to the bronx urgent"
    Bronx standby for an urgent message...ENGINE 73 K ..."
    then after the report is made, the dispatcher will often say "bronx to any battalion with a message, bronx to any engine with a message it mght be urgent messages 1st then routine
    and keep in mind they have cad on board to eleviate extra in services and such...

    The adrenalin rush when its rocking and rolling is as good as any I have experianced in 27 years of firefighting in the street...

    and yes we all have differant perspectives...

    a real call I recieved...

    (911 op 112 whats the emergency? ) I see the screen pop up the Choleman St sunocco gas station ez on ez off the interstate the time is 2300 on friday nite...
    (the store clerk) theres a guy outside the booth here, he is covered in blood....

    well, is he hurt? was there a MVA on the highway? when you say covered , <I mean head to toe..COVERED!!
    OK what is he saying did he ask you to call? < No I just seen him walk up to the booth did you see which direction he came from? < no well , from the north side >>>>

    at this point send the ambulance right?
    he must be hurt....

    he says , here he comes to the window ... static ....
    whats going on there ? he says he isnt hurt... can I talk to him? I asked, knowing they were able to allow him to get on an extension without getting him in the booth or the clerk coming out
    hello? yes this is the 911 dispatcher what happened are you ok? I am told your all bloody ... Ugggh~~~ mummbles
    look I think I just killed my room mate ( where is he? where did you stab him?) IN our apartment... where is that? So and so apts , building 4 apt *&%... ok you said buildg 4 apt *&% how long ago did this happen? oh i just walked here......uh huh is he alone there?
    yes
    (Vocalert the the ambulance and 1st due truck out to the apt..) for possible force entry for the stabbing victim
    what happened to make you stab him? What did he say or do that would make you fight
    uggh its a long story... ( I tell him to hold on just a second, cover the phone with my hand... I request the street super and the normal sector to the gas station along with 2 back up cars (4 cops) along with another to secure the apartment crime scene, leaving one cop in the city.... (I called the ER on our PL to possibly expect a stabbing victim)
    upon arrival at the apt , the victim had been transported via private vehicle to the ER, buth the ambulance was intercepted by the driver enroute the victim survived 38 stab wounds to the face, chest, stomach, legs, the perp was taken into custody without incident, The police and firefighters (career) who also ran the Ems. were both pleased because I took precaution and acted proffesionally with both agencies with regard to a crime and emergancy... the Truck did respond fully into the scene, and in fact did gain access for the 5th crime scene cop without disturbing the crime scene...

    The whole call was reviewed by both the deputy chief of both police and fire ( my direct line supervisors) and I recieved the first of several atta boy letters... because I took into consideraion each part of the large picture not just one or the other

    while this was all going on how many less than priority things got put on the back burner? Quite a few, we also had 2 M/A ambulances respond to calls and a 3 car MVA on an expressway off ramp leading into the city, IF not for the SP that night I suspect I would have been 2 cars shorter at that time
    well, Like has been stated dont force your hand on the
    Dispatchers if at all possible reduce they're workload and carry your nessesities with you in your vehicle... act like a professional out there dont count on others to do it for you

    Jim

  20. #20
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    oh this needs a BUMP !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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