1. #1
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    Lightbulb Tips, Tricks, & Innovations

    What has your dept. done to decrease the time spent to set up for drafting, loading & unloading tankers, and overall fireground water delivery? All ideas welcome.

    In your next truck, what would you change regarding water delivery?

  2. #2
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    GET HYDRANTS
    Member IACOJ & IACOJ EMS Bureau
    New England FOOL
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    As always these are strictly my own opinions and views

  3. #3
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    We haven't done this, but in reading a post a while back I came upon a really interesting way the Rattlesnake FPD setup their new tanker/pumpers. You can see it at their web site. I'll provide a link below.

    http://www.geocities.com/rattlesfpd2/draft.html
    Greg Smith
    Assistant Chief
    Gakona Vol. Fire Dept.
    Gakona, Alaska

  4. #4
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    We have installed dry hydrants in our area. We have several tankers around with either jet dumps or gravity dumps. Also, we have suction hose primers installed on our pumpers.

  5. #5
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    We use turbo draft preconnects to get a draft 50 to 300 feet from the rig in less than 45 seconds with 1 or 2 guys with lifts to 40 feet.

    We have preconnected squirrel tails on all rigs and foot valve strainers.

    We use multiple suction lines to each drop tank versus transfer devices,

    We use 8 to 12 inch diameter overhead fills to fill tankers 4000 to 5000 gallon in size in less than 1 minute.

    Use compressed air jets to speed dump times about 30 seconds for 5000 gallon loads

  6. #6
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    Cool

    we have 2 tankers, 1994 and 2001 freightliner. both were
    built by us tanker. we fill w/ 2 2 1/2" piped to the top
    of the tank. both fill have 1/4 turn zip nuts to make attachment
    faster. both trucks are set up w/ 3 10" newton dumps. the side dumps,
    located at the front of the body, have air operated chutes. all the
    dumps are controlled by the driver in the cab. we also installed a
    camera and monitor in the cab in order to be able to see directly
    behind the trucks. all in all a great one man operation to dump quickly.
    be safe
    nwfdmike
    north webster in

  7. #7
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    go to isoslayer.com it has links to all you ?

    larry is really good on waterhaul and iso

  8. #8
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    We're currently looking into specing our new pumper with suction intakes on both the front and rear as well as the sides. The 4 suctions will allow us to place the portable tank on any side of the rig. This will help greatly when it comes to apparatus placement especially on narrow drives and accesses.

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    One real easy thing we did was preconnect our floating strainer. A little engineering and 5 bucks worth of hardware saves us about 45 seconds each time we draft.

  10. #10
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    the times that i have drafted either from a dry hydrant or drop tank i have opened the tank to pump and the suction this fills the hard suction then i pull my prime it only takes a few seconds to do and decreases the amount of time to get my prime. fortornally now i am on the job where we have plenty of hydrants and we don't draft
    I PROVIDE A NAMELESS FACELESS SERVICE TO A COMMUNITY THAT RARELY KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY NEED ME IF I AM CALLED FROM A SOUND SLEEP TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE TRYING TO SAVE THE PROPERTY OR LIFE OF SOMEONE I DO NOT KNOW I WILL DO SO WITHOUT REGRET
    From the book "The Heart Behind The Hero" from Jon Mc Duffie in memory of Joe Dupee LAFD

  11. #11
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    Default screw tankers

    we have some rural area in our district. Screw porta tanks and tanker shuttles. Buy 1000 gallon engines, even a 1500 gallon pumper tanker. Nurse feed from a second engine for back up water. For God's sake train! Train Train Train. Water consumption is the key. Don't float the house on fire, don't wet smoke, and use the water where you need it. If its fully involved, use a couple of duece and a halfs, knock it down and move on with small line. Conserve your water!
    celer et audax

  12. #12
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    Default refilling at 100 gallons per SECOND

    I've always been impressed with Central Oktibbeha Fire Department in Mississippi. They developed a system to refill their tankers (or tenders, if you prefer) at 100 gallons per second (no kidding) with NO PUMPS.

    This would refill a 3500 gallon tanker in....35 seconds.

    It's head-slappingly simple, but unsuitable for cold climates.

    Main page here:

    http://msuinfo.ur.msstate.edu/~b_george/covfd/cofpd.htm

    Pic of refilling here:

    http://msuinfo.ur.msstate.edu/~b_geo...vfd/tanker.gif

    The web site is worth a read. This small rural fire department went from Class 10 to Class 8 based entirely on water shuttle.

    The site contains a detailed description of their water shuttle excercise in which they delivered 40,000 gallons of water in one hour while continuously pumping 500 GPM. At no time was there less than 6000 gallons on site, and when the exercise was over, they had 10,000 gallons remaining.
    Last edited by killerb; 06-03-2002 at 09:13 PM.
    Asst. Chief Bill

    International Order of the Fraternal Brotherhood of the Club

    Somewhere in or near north central Creek County, Oklahoma

  13. #13
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    Our newest tanker has 3 square dump valves. We can dump 2000 gallon from both sides or rear in 90 seconds, if you went with air dumps the driver wouldn't even have to leave the cab. Put in at least dual 2 1/2" fills, preferably a 5" Storz to fill fast. Put some pony's under the hood, a slow tanker will just drive you nuts. Consider a water supply truck. One that will go to the water supply (pond, well, hydrant, etc) and will be able to fill your tankers in a hurry. Hoping to get one for our department that will have a 1500 gpm pump. If you have a water supply truck can it fill one tanker while hooking to the second? A portable hydrant may solve this problem. If your state fire marshall's training division provides a water supply class take it. As you have probably know a tankers delivery rate is equal to 1)dump time + 2) fill time + 3) drive time (both ways). Can you do rural water supply that comprises of multiple water sources (cisterns, dry hydrants, irrigation wells, ponds, etc)? Decreasing drive time will speed delivery. Let me know if I can help. Thanks, Walt.
    Train like you want to fight.
    www.kvfd.net

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    Wink

    The department I'm with now has a fully hydranted response area but prior I was with a department that required drafting or shuttling in a lot of the areas. The only advice I can give beyond the excellant advice/ ideas given by other posters is to retrofit or start specing apparatus with class A foam systems. It is at least 2X more efficient that water alone and according to a lot of the reports I've read on the live fire tests between plain water and the use of foam they report 3 - 4X more efficiency in water usage. We've been using class A for 2 years and we've seen a huge difference in knockdown time and especially overhaul.

  15. #15
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    All I can say is you got to TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN. if you spend a lot of money on things to make you move water faster, if you don't train with it, it's kind of useless.

  16. #16
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    Billy,A cheap simple trick is put a traffic cone at each fill site or station where you want the back end of the tanker to be.You back to the cone,the hose is perfect length,hook in and fill.A "bull head" for multiple fills is also handy.T.C.

  17. #17
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    Lightbulb

    -Front mount suction, you can nose into the water hole and it's easier to line up to dry hydrants and get the distance right.
    -Dry hydrants, invest heavily in PVC and maintain them! Clear the area around them so the pumper can get in and have a turn around point at or very close to the water holes so the tankers do not waste time doing 3-point turns to go back to the scene.
    -4-5" fill plumbing on the tankers, 2 1/2" really limits your fill capacity. Use 5" LDH with Storz fittings and pump to the capacity of the hydrant truck.
    -Dedicate a hydrant truck. Lots of LDH, forward lay from the road to the water hole, as well as extra suction and various tools. A 4" or 5" discharge will help flow to capacity.
    -Side dumps on tankers. These allow the truck to pull right up to the tank without taking time to back up. Place the dump forward so the driver can easily align the chute to the tank
    -Top load setups work good for huge surround and drowns but take too long to set up for a normal structure unless they are designed into the hyrdant truck and self deploy.
    -Train Train Train. Placement of aparatus is critical to insure a smooth flow of tankers. Once you get good at this you'll find the tankers queing up waiting to dump as the attack truck has all the water it needs or can handle.

    Attack pumper to the house, forward lay LDH into the driveway begin tank water (1000gal). Feed pumper at the road, parked so the dump tank was at road's edge and the tankers could pull up and go without having to back up. Feed LDH with tank water (1000gal less filling up LDH). Tankers dump to portable tanks (2000gal each).

    Now if 6000gal was not enough you're in trouble, but luckily for you the hydrant truck went past the scene to the nearest water supply on the "far side" of the scene, mutual aid would go to the nearest on the "near" side of the fire. The tankers drive straight down the road (no turning around) to the hydrant truck swings around in the dedicated turn around point and hooks up to the LDH waiting for them. Two minutes later the tanker is rolling back and will dump then drive on past the scene to the mutual aid company at the other water hole. Of course this will not work so well if water holes are miles apart, consider a class A 10,000 gal tanker. Traffic control officer working with water supply officer is a must in large ops with lots of trucks rolling. The only truck which requires more than one FF'r is the attack truck, all other trucks can be solo which is great for short handed calls.

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