1. #1
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    Question Using One Attack Line?

    Thanks to all the people who gave their opinions on a one line attack on a kitchen fire!

    HELP! I need some reference material on justification for using a single 1 3/4 inch attack line on a kitchen fire. I would appreciate any reference whether magazine or training article.

    My fire chief is on a military base and although we have no SOP's regarding this has taken the position that a back up line should have been provided.

    If you have any info plse email

    roger.frost@sympatico.ca

  2. #2
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    FireCapt1951retired's Avatar
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    It's better to stretch line than not to have stretched. A backup line should always be ready. You never know what will happen. I'd rather have that second line and pick it up after, than not to and needed it at some point. It's a safety issue in my opinion.

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    I agree with my brother from the Motor City FireLt1951...you have to have a backup line "just in case" Murphy decides to pay a visit to the fireground. He sure does get around, doesn't he?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Backup lines are essential. They provide for the protection of the first in crew and also can be utilized when things "go west" in a hurry. Stretching a line is not something that should be debated. Repacking a line when it is not needed is preferable to repacking a line that you had to pull because you failed to provide backup. Hope that statement makes sense.

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    Just to remind everyone, the original incident Roger posted about was room & contents kitchen fire that he arrived at with a four-man crew.

    I couldn't get you good hyperlinks, but use Search from http://fe.pennnet.com/home.cfm to find the whole articles!

    Fire Engineering, April 99:
    NOZZLES AND HANDLINES FOR INTERIOR OPERATIONS

    BY DAVID WOOD

    The phrase "aggressive interior attack" is used frequently in the fire service, but what does it really mean? It implies that the first-due engine company`s primary function is to push a handline into the structure and control the fire. Separating the burning area from the uninvolved rooms that must be searched for occupants is the most vital function of the engine company. Putting water on the seat of the fire is the very heart of what we do.

    Fire Engineering, April 97:
    STRETCHING AND ADVANCING HANDLINES, PART 2

    BY ANDREW A. FREDERICKS

    Advancing the initial handline at a structure fire is the best means of protecting civilian and firefighter lives.

    Fire Engineering, November '96
    HOW MUCH RISK IS TOO MUCH?

    BY BILL GUSTIN

    Small departments protecting suburban or bedroom communities, comprised predominantly of single-family homes, generally are quite effective in combating fires in these structures when they can initiate a quick attack with preconnected lines supplied by the apparatus booster tank.

    And Finally,
    Fire Engineering, March, 1997:
    STRECHING AND ADVANCING HANDLES, PART 1

    BY ANDREW A. FREDERICKS

    First, it should be the rare situation indeed that a second handline is stretched before the first line has been stretched, charged, and started its ad-vance on the seat of the fire.


    ================================================== ==================
    4 men. One Engine. One room (kitchen) on fire, on first floor of a duplex. You should have the fire out before you have time or manpower to pull a backup line.

    Backup lines are a very good idea -- but not every fire is one that demands you wait for additional staff to pull them before getting water on the fire first! I would get very critical if there isn't a backup line flaked on the lawn 'bout 30 seconds after the 2nd due engine arrives though.

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    Putting water on the fire in the form of the first line in operation is the quickest way to bring about fruitful results. As I point out in next months Fire Engineering I agree wholeheartedly with Andy. In this case I did not read the original post. A back-up line should be stretched at the earliest available time. It is a good practice. However, to slap the funk out of the fire is the surest way to resolve most problems.

    I would be critical if we people were waiting around for the back-up line to be stretched as well. I was taught, and we practiced, aggressive interior structural firefighting. We operated off the booster tank and attacked the fire while a supply line was being laid. So fast water was great for us in an old city of tight combustible wood frame structures. In the meantime, as soon as possible, a back up line should be stretched.

    Last edited by JayTL; 04-11-2002 at 04:01 PM.

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    I agree, you never know when DA MURPH will rear his *** ugly head.
    If you get to the fire and you have more fire than the 1 1 3/4" can
    handle, then you have a second to give you the extra needed to knock the fire down as well as to watch your ***!

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    In this case I did not read the original post.

    Odd, you posted to it.

    http://www.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...5&pagenumber=2

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    I agree with all the other guys, it's better to have that second line pulled and not needed than not stretched at all. It doesn't have to be charged just stretched and ready just in case. After the pump operator gets water to the attack line he could stretch that line for you.
    "Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death."

    Gen. Omar Bradley

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    Odd, you posted to it.
    Did not remember it. Seee you in May.

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    Cannot argue with the logic of stretching and placing a back-up line before it is needed. However, I feel strongly that the first line MUST be advanced to the fire seat as soon as possible.

    For those who are dealing with staffing problems, I would submit that pushing the first line in should take precedence over the back-up, if a decision must be made as to how to utilize limited manpower.

    In overly simple terms, I would much rather have one line at the fire seat and operating, than to have two lines that are not making it to the seat. You certainly do not want to get into the situation where the first line can't make it in position, so the second line takes it upon themselves to try and push their line past them.

    Maybe the second due can pull double duty... help push the first line into position and then go back for the back-up. This would ensure that the fire spread is slowed and stopped as quickly as possible, while still getting the protection of the back-up line.

    What I strongly disagree with is pulling a back-up line just so you can say one is pulled. If the line is not capable of supplying more GPM than the first, and covering a larger area (i.e. floor above), then is pulling it a worth while effort? In theory, to fulfill these two requirements, the back-up line may be larger in diameter and almost certainly longer in length. This will probably make it even more difficult to advance than the first line.

    Just a few thoughts.

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    I would say that 95% of the working fires (I know..there are many definitions)are extinguished with one well placed handline.

    Should we pull a back up line?.....hell yes... I am with Gonzo...Murhpy seems to show up all the time.

    Expect the unexpected,,,and prepare. It does not hurt to pull the back up line and have it ready.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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