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  1. #201
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default Dear "Frequent Visitor"

    nferno24
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    chief reason u have NO clue!!!!!
    This is directed towards the road scholar or scholars, whom are nothing more then monday mourning quarterbacks!!! Were u there chiefreason? These post's have gone on for to long. Only the people who were there that tragic day know what happened. All the information you have received, are only half truths. This incident claimed a life of a very honorable young man. It is in his memory that i can not see you people "i.e chiefreason" to spew half truths and think they know exactly what happened. Lets all learn from this tragety and move on. Let it go people, let it go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    So, you are shutting this thread down? Monday MORNING quarterback? You know what? I didn't kill anyone in a training exercise the entire time I served my 22 years on my fire department.
    But before I say something that I will regret to YOU, I will only say:
    NO!
    We will not stop discussing this terrible tragedy. Just like we won't stop discussing the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire. Or Worcester. Or Osceola County. Or 9/11 or how to prevent the next firefighter tragedy.
    And for the record, it is ALSO in the memory of "this very honorable young man" that we continue to discuss this and will until the person/people that were responsible are held accountable.
    "Spew half-truths"? Are you telling me that the trial transcripts and the NIOSH report was "spewing" half-truths? I question whether you read any of it.
    I really don't care what you think or if you even think at all.
    So you can crawl back into your cave and come back when you have something to say that will be worth discussing.
    And leave this thread for the ones who wish to discuss and learn.
    I don't need "clues". I have the facts. I read the reports.
    Stay safe.
    CR
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  2. #202
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: chief reason u have NO clue!!!!!

    Originally posted by nferno24
    This is directed towards the road scholar or scholars, whom are nothing more then monday mourning quarterbacks!!! Were u there chiefreason? These post's have gone on for to long. Only the people who were there that tragic day know what happened. All the information you have received, are only half truths. This incident claimed a life of a very honorable young man. It is in his memory that i can not see you people "i.e chiefreason" to spew half truths and think they know exactly what happened. Lets all learn from this tragety and move on. Let it go people, let it go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    nferno 24...

    60 "monday mornings" have passed since the Lairdsville incident.

    The outcome still hasn't changed.

    Brad is still dead.

    The State of New York proved it's case against Alan Baird.

    Alan Baird is still walking the streets.

    The NIOSH report had all the facts. What part of it don't you understand?

    "Let it go?" Hell no! Brad's death was a caused by ignorance arrogance and afterwards, a total lack of penance for Brad and the Golden family.

    The drum will keep beating until there are "no more Lairdsvilles" and Alan Baird serves his sentance!"
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  3. #203
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Default

    nferno 24, I for one am extremely interested in the "other side" of the story. IF we've only seen one chapter, I'd like to see the rest. I'm truly interested to see what the "rest of the story" is. If things are so m uch different than what they appear, why were these facts not made available to NIOSH investigators, or to the jury at trial? Let us hear the rest of the "half-truths" of which you speak.

    You want us to learn from this tragedy, how can we do that with only half truths, partial chapters, and innuendo. If Baird got hosed, tell us how? You obviously know the whole truth, and have so much as said so. You've got an obligation now to enlighten us with the facts that you hold in your possession. How can we learn from this tragedy, without all the facts. How can you possibly want to see open discussion of this issue silenced in his memory?

    I'm serious....let's have the whole story. After all, it's not a state secret.
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  4. #204
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Post Re: if you only knew!!!

    Originally posted by nferno24
    Chief Reason,
    You think you know, but you have know Idea!!!!!

    I'm not here to argue with you. All I'm saying is that you have only heard one side of the whole picture. I understand your intrest in this incident but before you go writing a report, how about asking the people whom were there, their side of the story.
    If there IS another side of this story to be told, I'd certainly like to hear it. Your post seems to imply that you have personal knowledge of what went on that tragic day.

    Maybe you'd like to share it with us? I'm asking you directly....If you were there and have firsthand knowledge that disputes the court testimony and the NIOSH investigation...speak up.

    Why have you waited for 20 months...yes, 20 months....to tell us that the facts of this case are not known?

    I, and many others, await the true story! Let's hear it nferno24.
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  5. #205
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    Default

    But guys, we HAVE heard the other side of the story. We have heard the other of the story in the pathetic game of "CYA" that has taken place since the incident. We have seen it in the GJ transcripts, we have seen it in the newspaper accounts and we have seen it in the trial transcripts.

    nferno24, come out of the shadows. What is your connceciton to this incident? Do not insult our intelligence and tell us you have none. To date, the ONLY people who have defended these idiots in Lairdsville have been people who were involved (including an inept and irrespeonsible defense attorney).

    Chief; keep up the fight brother.

  6. #206
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Angry

    I love these guys with Cerebral-rectosis who keep trying to say we don't know what happened.Fact 1 The NATIONAL STANDARD on live fire training was not followed or for that matter even used.Fact 2 a 19 yr.probationary FF was KILLED IN A TRAINING EXERCISE!Fact 3 NONE of the SO CALLED OFFICERS had enough common sense to stop this exercise.Now those are three of many FEDERALLY investigated FACTS that have been released in a NATIONAL report which I'm more inclined to believe than your I know what happened line.CR keep doing it for all the RIGHT reasons,I'm right there with you.To suggest that a man with Chief Reasons track record is clueless would lead me to the conclusion that you're probably one of Bairds wackers.You CERTAINLY have some fire science education to catch up on.T.C.

  7. #207
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Default OH BOY

    Wow.......

    Let me jump back in here.

    NFERNO24.... You are so far off base on you verbal attack on ChiefREason that it is pathetic. WE have heard both stories.. We have heard testimony from the idiot Baird who killed young Brad. WE have heard testimony... (it is a matter of public record you know and we have read the transcripts)...of others who refused to accept responsibility for killing the firefighter and severely burned another. These two firefighters had no training in SCBA and were left in the house unsupervised using equipment that they were untrained to use.. (Baird admitted to this in his testimony and orignial statement) and as a result of this irresponsible action, one firefighter died and one was injured. No I have to ask you NFERNO24...What other part of the story is there? We have read it all..

    Do not come on here and unnecessarily attack us when we are discussing issues and cases that effect the safety of all the firefighters across the nation. You sir are the one who is uninformed! I can not help but to wonder what part you had in this entire incident???? Do you want to share that with us????

    What is sadder than the tragic loss of life is the fact that the Chief chose immunity (for testimony) rather than accept the responsibility for what happened. And furthermore.....More heads besides Baird's should roll. The city manage who put him in the position, the commission who approved his appointment, the other officers on the scene...and the list goes on. But then again....if you read all the information that has been posted on the several threads listed here on this subject you would know all of this.

    Again, I can not help but to think that because of your abrasivness on this subject that you are involved in the whole thing.,....
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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  8. #208
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default I wasn't going to, since you're all doing such a good job, but....

    Fellow crusties;
    Though I appreciate the support, we cannot lose sight of the reason for this thread.
    You know, last night when I read the eloquent post of nferno, I started to giggle because I knew the torrent of response that it would unleash in everyone who is passionate about firefighter safety. Nferno's posts to this point are as empty as his profile. He is so proud, that he leaves alot to the imagination in his profile.
    But I am humbled by the fact that he chose as his very first post under the pseudonym of nferno24 to attack me. So let me address a couple of errors in his posts.
    First of all, I am not writing a report; I am writing a paper!
    Secondly; everything that is quoted has a source. You are ignorant when you state that I have only read "one chapter of the book". You are moronic to state that we only heard one side of the story. Everything that has been discussed here and elsewhere has been from information gathered at trial, from the NIOSH report and statements made to the news media; all information that is in the public domain. Several articles appeared right here in Firehouse.com. Were they "spewing half-truths" too? No, because they named their sources.
    And the last issue to clear up is your belief that "if you weren't there, you shouldn't be discussing it". Congratulations; you are the pinata that has been getting hit with the idiot stick. If we were to use your logic, the history books would be empty, because if you weren't there, you shouldn't discuss it. Fascinating.
    And while we are on that subject; check your grammar and spelling before you hit "submit". And I am going to have to take points away from you for using too many exclamation points! One at the end of a sentence is sufficient.
    Now, to the real crux of this whole thing. You want to attack me, fine. Go start a thread. I'll post there. But you don't come in here and INFER that you know anything about this incident without posting same. Put up or shut up! Otherwise, you're just another smart-aleck hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.
    Ladies and gentlemen; please resume the meaningful dialogue.
    CR
    Last edited by ChiefReason; 05-12-2003 at 12:51 PM.
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  9. #209
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    nferno24... Sorry I blasted you but it was obvious that you were involved in some way.

    As far as Chief Reason goes....well...I will not attempt to fight his battles for him..he has done well in that arean and is well qualified.

    I will just say that I do not feel Chief Reason was implying anyone was a coward. He was just questioning the content of the story and trying to make a point.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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  10. #210
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    Nferno24,
    Your apology is a start, but there is much more you need to clarify.

    Other than saying you are a friend of Adam Croman, you haven't explained what additional knowledge you have of the incident. Are you a firefighter? Were you there the day of the incident? Or, are you just relaying things you've heard from your friend?

    You are correct in saying that there are few people in the world who have had to make a decision like you say your friend had to make. The point you miss is that many of those "few people" are here. We are experienced firefighters and instructors. We have run training fires. I've been caught in a flashover & had to react. I have NEVER mismanaged or been allowed to mismanage a training fire like that one was. ChiefReason and others can say the same.

    I disagree strongly that Baird is the only guilty one. His entire chain of command failed to ensure the incident was planned. At the minimum, your friend failed to say he was not experienced enough to serve in the role he was ask There is a clear difference in what you are saying your friend did with what all of the other testimony states he did.

    I don't understand your question about us feeling differently if Baird had nothing to do with the fire service. First, that isn't the case - Baird was in the fire service. Second, I feel the same way about any trainer who doesn't know what they're doing and injures someone - no matter what the field.

    Please expand on what you've said so far.
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

  11. #211
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    Default

    Originally posted by nferno24
    To all,
    I would like to take this moment and apoligize for my reactions. I am a personal friend of one of the injured firefighters that day. I know for a fact that he was injured not only physically, but mentally as well. He is a true fireman through and through. There is nothing this young man would do for his fellow firefighters.
    I reacted when i read a post by chiefreason, he was making this young man out to be a coward. There are few people in this world that have been where this young man has been and have to make thoses split decisons he had to make. It is well documented that he tried to rescue those boys first. He thought of them before his own life.
    There is another thing that has bothered me. This young man came home that day to help. Thats it! He was 50 miles away while this whole training disaster was being plotted. He was NO RIT specialist nor did he proclaim to be.All that was made up by a certain sleeze ball defense lawyer.
    I think the question in my mind to you all is this. Forget about Baird being a fire officer. Would people have the same views if this happened if baird had nothing to do with the fire service? People seem to forget that it was alan baird that lit the fire under the only means of exit for those young man. It was baird whom planned and to control of that scene that fateful day. We can all sit around the camp fire and point fingers but at the end of the day all the fingers rest on alan bairds shoulders. Nobody made him light that fire that day but himself.
    Thank you for your time and I hope I could clear the water abit.

    In NO way am i trying to pick fights with you all. I just want people to understand there are others that were affected by the neglegence of alan baird.
    Too late to apologize. Too late, you already picked a fight.

    The FACTS of the case, as have been painstakingly researched here by many of us, clearly show that:

    1. Baird is a criminal and a conspirator.
    2. Croman is a gutless coward.
    3. You are either too close to this or grossly misinformed.

  12. #212
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    Default

    Good on you for coming clean Nferno.

    The reason myself, and other firefighters around the world (I am in New Zealand) study this incident, and others, with such intensity is to LEARN. That is what everyone who has posted in reply to you, and prior to your post, has been attempting to do.

    It is hard enough when Brothers get injured/killed in the Line Of Duty to read reports and learn lessons. It is even harder when there was no good reason why it occured in the first place.

    There is one lesson drummed into every Firefighters head from day one.

    Firefighters First.
    People Second.
    Property Third.

    The reason for that is that it is NOT the victims already inside that will save your ***** in times of trouble, it is your Brothers.

    Read my lips.

    Firefighters were injured and one died, because they were placed in a dangerous place and left there by fellow Firefighters.

  13. #213
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default Get a snack; this is a long one!

    Nferno24:
    Since you attempted to discredit me in your posts, YOU made it personal. I didn’t. I only posted what was a matter of public record and offered my insights in the form of opinions, based on my 22 years of live-burn training without an injury or death.
    It was clear to me from the beginning that you were close to one of the participants in the Lairdsville incident of Sept. 25, 2001. It is now clear that it is Adam Croman.
    So, we are going to focus on his activities, as according to the NIOSH investigators and the statements made at trial by Adam Croman, Alan Baird III and Ben Morris. Keep in mind that Adam Croman would have been interviewed by the investigators, so the description of Adam Croman’s activities on Sept. 25, 2001, are based on statements made by Adam Croman to the investigators and to the prosecutor and defense attorney at trial.
    NIOSH report
    Adam Croman was referred to as “Fire Fighter #2 in the report.
    On Sept. 25, 2001 at approximately 1845, Ben Morris, Adam Croman, Bradley Golden, Gary Spaven and Alan Baird III discussed the live burn rescue drill. Baird was the instructor. Spaven was safety officer for the west unit of the duplex. Croman was safety officer for the east unit and the ignition officer.
    Croman was on the second floor of the east unit, where he was to place the “trapped firefighters”(Morris and Golden) in the front bedroom, light the burn barrel in the back bedroom and guide the RIT, if necessary.
    Croman struck a flare and lit the burn barrel and radioed the chief at approximately 1855 that it was lit. He stayed in the hallway to guide RIT, if necessary. The barrel was not producing smoke, so Croman went back to the back bedroom to “assist” the process.
    Croman heard the second flare being struck and went to investigate. “In a matter of seconds, the flames began to roll across the ceiling, up the stairs and out the front windows of the burn unit, producing what was described as “thick, steamy smoke”.
    Croman went to retrieve the “trapped firefighters” from the front bedroom, where flames were already coming in through the windows. Croman grabbed the two “trapped firefighters” and led them to the stairwell, which was fully engulfed. Croman lost his fire gloves in the process, exposing the leather gloves he had worn underneath. The leather gloves immediately burned and adhered to his skin. He and the “trapped firefighters” became separated. Croman made it to the back bedroom where the burn barrel was located. Conditions in that bedroom were extremely smoky with little heat. Croman frantically searched for the window that had been boarded shut to aid in the smoke conditions. He was able to pry the window open with his hands and he jumped from the second floor window, just as Baird arrived with a hand line.
    NFPA 1403
    The standard states that a safety officer has no other duties that interfere with safety responsibilities. Croman was the safety officer, but also lit the burn barrel.
    According to NFPA 1403, safety officers should have:
    1)Supervised the lighting of the burn barrel only
    2)Verified that participants met basic firefighting requirements
    3)Conducted a walk-through of the structure, identify entry and exit points, discuss an evacuation plan and emergency signal with all participants
    4)Insured that no fires were set up near exit paths
    5)Inspected structure pre-burn to remove materials that could contribute to rapid fire spread and check for physical safety hazards
    6)Insured that the requirements of NFPA 1403 were met before the fire was lit.
    At Trial
    Croman stated that: “All I saw was one foot and one hand going down and then I saw an orange glow; that’s all I saw”.
    Croman said Baird “then commanded me to give him the mattress. That’s when I saw flames licking from the first level to the ceiling of the second level”.
    He told NIOSH investigators that he was in the back bedroom in the burn barrel room when “he heard a second flare struck and went to investigate”.
    At Trial
    Croman said that he took Morris and Golden to a second floor window, but flames and thick, black smoke “were licking up at us. We got to the hall area and sort of just nudged each other to try to get downstairs”. As the three firefighters tried to crawl backwards down a burning staircase to escape, Croman realized he couldn’t make it down that way alive.
    Moments later, Croman testified he lost contact with Morris and Golden.
    “You go from human to survival mode. You can’t explain it. We were all just panicking. WE DIDN’T KNOW WHAT TO DO”, Croman testified. “It got intense. I JUST BOLTED OUT. We were yelling for each other. To this day, I can still hear screaming. It was mind-boggling”.
    Croman found the burn barrel room and crawled until he felt cardboard over the window. “I made the decision. I HAD TO GET OUT. My hands were tingling. I put my hands out, my arms and I just dropped”, Croman said.
    Lance Croman, Adam Croman’s father and Chief, testified that his son called back to the station before the exercise and asked for two “victims”.
    Ben Morris, one of the “trapped firefighters”, has a different account of events.
    At trial, Morris testified that he was not briefed on the night of Sept. 25, 2001. He states that he was told it was to be a “routine interior fire attack”. He stated that he and Golden had the roles of “victims”.
    Morris said that after donning full protective gear and being positioned on the floor by Adam Croman in the front upstairs bedroom, he and Golden waited.
    He testified that Croman left them, but returned in about five minutes.
    Morris said of Croman, “He came back to the room, stood in the doorway and said, ‘Come on guys, we gotta go. Let’s go’.”
    Morris said, “You could see the place filling with smoke”. As the firefighters tried to escape, they quickly lost contact with each other.
    “I NEVER MADE IT TO MY FEET. The room filled with smoke. I was confused. I didn’t know what was going on”, Morris testified. Morris said that he panicked and became disoriented. EXTREME HEAT PREVENTED HIM FROM MAKING IT TO THE BLAZING STAIRWAY. As he felt along the walls for one of the boarded up windows in the bedroom, Morris lost consciousness. He next remembers “waking up in grass in the front yard” after being taken out of the house in time to be revived. Golden died of asphyxia on the second floor.
    Morris testified that Adam Croman was acting as a safety officer, which Croman earlier denied on the witness stand.
    Baird also testified that Adam Croman and Gary Spaven were acting as safety officers for the training exercise.
    So, there you have it, nferno24. I NEVER called Adam Croman a coward. The facts speak for themselves. He wasn’t old enough or experienced enough to be a coward. He was a kid playing firefighter and when the exercise went terribly awry, Adam Croman did not have it in him to get the others to safety. I would expect that he has overwhelming feelings of guilt and every time he uses his hands, he is reminded of the bad decisions that were made on the night of Sept. 25, 2001.
    He has the rest of his life, however conflicted that might be, but anything is better than what happened to that “fine, honorable young man”-Bradley Golden.
    Nferno24; Bradley Golden and his entire family deserve justice for his unnecessary and untimely death. I cannot fathom how any fire department operating in the aftermath of 9/11 could be so loosely organized that the governing body and chief officers do not exercise the controls necessary to avert poor decision-making by subordinate officers and firefighters. Accountability should be from the top down. Shifting blame should never be an option.
    And guys like me, whether you like it or not, will make certain that Bradley Golden’s memory will live on through legislative changes that will improve firefighter safety nation-wide.
    I wish you a long and safe career.
    CR
    Last edited by ChiefReason; 05-12-2003 at 10:52 PM.
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  14. #214
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    Default What Happened to Nferno's posts?

    Where have all the fool's posts gone?
    Long time passing.
    Where have all the fool's posts gone?
    Long time ago.
    Where have all the fool's posts gone?
    Gone to electrons every one.
    When will they ever learn?
    When will they ever learn?
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

  15. #215
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Angry Please...what happened here?

    It seems that...no, it's quite apparent that posts by nferno24 were removed from these forums.

    Can someone offer an explanation of why and how that took place? I find it very frustrating to return to a discussion....and find the posts of a "key" contributor missing. And yes, the contributions of nferno24 were important....very important in revealing the feelings and attitude of an individual who was personally involved in the tragedy at Lairdsville.

    What happened here! Can someone please enlighten me? I just checked the profile for nferno24. It reads:

    Profile For nferno24
    Date Registered: 01-11-2003
    Status: MembersZone Subscriber
    Total Posts: 0 (0.00 posts per day)
    Last Post: Never

    How does one retract, and furthermore, remove all evidence of comments made on these forums?
    Last edited by NJFFSA16; 05-13-2003 at 03:12 AM.
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  16. #216
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default It's simple, NJ; just go to "edit" and POOF!

    His posts were still in here after my last, lengthy post. Like you, when I checked this morning and discovered that they were gone, I was surprised.
    At least all three of nferno's posts were fully quoted in subsequent posts. Otherwise, the latter part of this discussion would make little sense.
    I don't believe that a user should have the option of deleting a post. In this case, they were deleted because the poster did not find a groundswell of support for his position, so he removed his "footprints". That's unfortunate, because now that just raises questions and the speculation as to the identity of the poster. I have mine.
    But, hopefully, this discussion will move on and the participants can do so without personal attack.
    Cripes; I wanted nferno24 to respect my point of view. I didn't necessarily want to see him go away. Clearly, he was passionate about his thoughts on the case.
    George, what do you say about a guy who takes a couple of jabs and then "deletes"?
    Keep the memory of Bradley Golden alive.
    CR
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  17. #217
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    Default Bump

    CR,
    As of last night at 10:00 pm Eastern Daylight time his posts were deleted.

    Anyone have any news? How about civil filings? Has the Golden Family filed any wrongful death suits? Inquiring minds want to know?

  18. #218
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Default Amazing

    I noticed that he suddenly quit posting but did not even notice that his posts were gone.

    The power of the key stroke.,......

    Chief....who do you think it is??????

    I wish our friend who had some inside contact with the court system up there would chime back in and give us an update...
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  19. #219
    Senior Member ENG6511's Avatar
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    Default

    CAPSTANM1, your wish is my command. Sorry about my slow response,the chemo is as bad as the disease and I'm only at 1/2 speed. I did talk with the clerk and the file[ what there is of it] will be sent to me as soon as they receive my attorney's check. No credit cards.
    What is so strange about this case that I can't remember experiencing in 30 years of law practice, no ANSWER (response) has ever been filed [which isn't strange in and if itself} but NO DEFAULT has been taken by the Estate of Golden. The service affidavits are the only thing in the file with the civil complaint. WHY? Was there a deal? What kind of deal? Let me see when I get the pleadings who the Plaintiff(s) and Defendant(s) are and I'll be able to figure it out. Probably Baird is broke, soverign immunity was a factor and the town's insurance carrier got into the act in a sealed settlement. We'll see. I'll post the complaint as soon as I receive it. I havent forgotten you or the case. It's compelling to me to follow up, just a bit slow.
    Bob Compton
    IACOJ-Proud
    IACOJ-HALL OF FAME-2003

  20. #220
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default Stan; you KNOW who I think it was!

    BC:
    Glad to see you up and about. How much more chemo before they declare you C-free?
    I have a hard time believing that Bob Moran has this much juice. I mean; his client was convicted of a lesser charge, he could do 75 days standing on his head and since he won't be killing any more firefighters unless he hits them with his car, Alan Baird III should be able to do the five years probation without incident. But why is it taking so long for the sentence to be carried out? Does the judge figure we are just going to forget about it? My God; you'd think that he was appealing a death sentence. Feels like it's been 14 years. Unlikely that he will get a reprieve or a pardon from the governor.
    The prosecutor or somebody with a big stick needs to shake this thing up.
    We are coming up on the second anniversary of this tragedy and it doesn't sound like we are any closer to waving bye-bye to Alan Baird III than we were 18 months ago. This thing needs to come to a fitting end.
    Thanks for your efforts, Bob. Could I send you a little something for the file?
    Get well.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

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