1. #251
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    From the NY state web page:

    Write Governor Pataki at:
    Governor George E. Pataki
    State Capitol
    Albany, NY 12224

    It does not give a specific e-mail address, but gives a form to fill out. The address for the web page that gives you this form is:
    http://www.state.ny.us/governor/
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

    Dusty, working on Crusty IACOJ

  2. #252
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    Message sent!T.C.

  3. #253
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    Cool

    Posted earlier by NJFFSA16
    I am curious to see what impact this tragedy has had in the immediate vicinity of the incident.

    To those of you in the area around Westmoreland, Lairdsville and Lowell......what changes have you made, as a result of the incident on September 25, 2001? I'm interested to see if anyone has chosen to learn from this tragedy....and perhaps, not repeat it.

    On a department/company level.....Have written SOPs or SOGs been put in place? Have prerequisites been established for officers? Have training standards been considered?


    What operations/procedures have you changed/updated/improved as a direct result of this tragedy?

    Enlighten us! If it has been "business as usual"...let us know that too!
    No replies.

    So...I guess we won't hear from any Lairdsville/Westmoreland/Lowell area FF's, telling us how things have changed up there huh?

    All those new SOP/SOG to abide by. New training requirements. Prerequisites for officers. They wouldn't want to make the same mistake twice, huh?

    I'm still waiting. Any changes up there...?
    (and I'm not talking about the live victim legislation....)
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    NJ, my very real fear is that it's "business as usual" up there.

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    Default Business as usual

    From what I hear, the local fire departments here have made some changes. I think it is only becuase they are trying to protect themselves from different lawsuits.

    Most of the fireman involved in the incident do not dicuss it. They pretend nothing happened. Early this month I visited a local department's field days. When I entered the beer tent to eat my french fries, an entire table of firemen left.

    When the local media started to do news stories on the new bill, the only comment the fire companies would say is that a "dummy" costs $3000 and they don't have the money. One woman wrote to the news station and said that if the department can't afford a "dummy" use a big bag of kitty litter or dog food.
    One thing I did notice while at the field days, was all the very young new firemen in the department. Some were not even out of high school. I just pray they are using their heads and staying safe.

    Have a great weekend!!
    Stay Safe!!

    Christine Golden

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    Most of the fireman involved in the incident do not dicuss it. They pretend nothing happened. Early this month I visited a local department's field days. When I entered the beer tent to eat my french fries, an entire table of firemen left.
    That has to be one of the most unbelieveable things I have heard!

    When we we as a Service stop blaming the wrong people, or stop complaining about the "stupid" safety requirments. I was always taught that when something goes wrong, begin your evaluation with yourself and what you did, try to figure out if your actions contributed to the problem. Oh yeah, and own up to em if they did.....



    GGGGRRRRRRRRRR!

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    When the local media started to do news stories on the new bill, the only comment the fire companies would say is that a "dummy" costs $3000 and they don't have the money.
    What a quote this is! I would have to counter with this question: What value can you put on a human life? Is it not worth $3000.00?
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    Default Here we go again.

    CGolden wrote:
    One thing I did notice while at the field days, was all the very young new firemen in the department. Some were not even out of high school. I just pray they are using their heads and staying safe.
    Christine: if nothing has changed and it is "business as usual", then the same mistakes will be made. In their case, it is just something else to ignore, because that is the only thing Lairdsville FD is good at; ignoring the laws and standards that govern fire departments.
    I feel for the new firefighters. They must enjoy the thrill of not knowing whether they will survive their training. If that is what pumps their adrenaline, then they have found the perfect fit. I pray for their safety and that they have adequate insurance.
    CR
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    Maybe someone should point the Lairdsville guys to the thread on making hose dummies. We have 3 of them in our station (not counting the Probies of course - that would make 6 LOL, and we don't use them as victims in live fire training).

    Everyone has old, retired hose in their stations, and retired turnouts too... its cheap and it works well, who needs to spend $3k?

    As for the "table of firemen who got up and left"... well that really shows good support and Brotherhood guys... keep up the "good" work! I just hope that one day it's not one of you who dies for stupidity.

    Here's the link for those who wish... http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=46982
    Last edited by MalahatTwo7; 06-26-2003 at 02:30 PM.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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    Default Dang Canadians!

    Malahat, you beat me to the punch! The quote about having to spend $3K on a dummy is merely an excuse to avoid complying with the new law and the totally classless action of leaving when a fallen firefighter's family member enters is just further proof that those folks are going to prove George's prediction 'my very real fear is that it's "business as usual" up there' is dead-on.

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    Oh that only one of those firefighters.....and I use that term very loosely in this case.....read these forums.

    Lairdsville FD, how does it feel to be the laughing stock of the entire US of A and Canada? And let us not forget most of the UK and our downunder friends. How does it feel to be part of a new analogy.......... "Good god, don't pull a "Lairdsville on us!!" "Where do you think you're from........Lairdsville?????" What a thing to be proud of!!!!

    Christine, if it makes you feel better, those (clearing throat) "firefighters " left because they were embarassed and ashamed even if they want to think they were snubbing you.

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    Don't you guys understand? Those fire fighters got up and left because it is the Golden family's fault that their precious fire service culture has been challenged. They betrayed the brothers in the fire house. Why, who the hell are they,as private citizens, to question what is done in the fire house? We've been doing it this way for 50 years. Jeepers!

    Christine, take comfort in the fact that you, and your family, are way better people than those (OMG, he's going to say it!) mutts that got up and left.

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    Amen, George.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    Hmmmm.... Well....it seems not only does Lairdsville ignore safety practices and snub their fallen comrades family, (you remember..the one they killed) they also support alcohol in and around the station as evidenced by the statement
    Early this month I visited a local department's field days. When I entered the beer tent to ....
    Maybe they got up because not only were they embarassed, they feared the Golden family may question if they were drinking on duty or not?????? So you see...there is not much difference (except in miles apart) between Lairdsville NY and Newcastle WY. They both are departments that have no concern for the safety and well being of their personnel.

    Sorry folks..but I had to tie in the alcohol to this one.

    Perhaps they should take some of the money they made selling beer to the public and to the members and buy a rescue dummy. Heck....I am sure that if they established a fund a lot us us forum readers may contribute to it....just to keep someone else from dying. Or...we could just take up a collection and buy one and have it shipped... That way we know the money is spent for what it is allocated!

    Ladycapn is right.... A total embarassment to the fire service community.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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  15. #265
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    Stan, I've got twenty bucks to throw in the pot. It'd be worth it to take that excuse from them, and see what other excuses they would conjer up.


    posted by GeorgeWendtCFI:Those fire fighters got up and left because it is the Golden family's fault that their precious fire service culture has been challenged.
    No way, no shape, no how were those "people" firefighters. It's amazing how that one simple act speaks volumes about their character.
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    Correct me if I am wrong (God knows my wife is an expert at it), isn't this the type of thing the Fire Act was created to correct. Man, 3K for a dummy, they would pay that in a second.

    George, you said it well my friend.

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    There's much to be said about FF's who make mistakes, step back, examine WHAT went wrong....make adjustments and corrections...and move on.

    There's nothing to be said for these firefi...firefig....fire. No, I'm sorry. That title doesn't apply here.

    There's nothing to be said for these fools. They are doomed to repeat history.

    Silence is Golden. Their inactions speak volumes.


    God bless you Christine!
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    Talking Dummies making dummies

    3K for a dummy?What are these guys smokin'?Crack? 2 or 3 lengths of 2.5 hose,a roll of duct tape,15 minutes of a little imagination and you have another rescue dummy.Four in an hour.You beat 'em up,tape 'em up and keep training.No bolts or anything else except the couplings to stave anyone up.And if you make a mistake and don't get them out of the burn,you're just doing paper on the loss of Hose A as evidenced by his remains,the couplings.Man I hate dealing with cave dwellers,come to the LIGHT.Lessee,3k will buy QUITE a bunch of duct tape.Probably get quite a few rolls of used hose too. NEXT EXCUSE!T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 06-27-2003 at 08:46 AM.

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    Most of the fireman involved in the incident do not dicuss it. They pretend nothing happened. Early this month I visited a local department's field days. When I entered the beer tent to eat my french fries, an entire table of firemen left.
    That's heartbreaking They should be ashamed of themselves.
    September 11th - Never Forget

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  20. #270
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    Originally posted by TrojanHorse
    Not for nothing, but what kind of value do you get from pulling a dummy from an actual burning building? Why not build a maze in the meeting room and simulate it. Doesn't make much sense to me to put anybody in a burning building needlessly.
    It's called training under actual conditions that will be found on the fireground!

    Doesn't this guy have an (expletive deleted) clue?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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  21. #271
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    Uhhhhh....smoke, heat, noise, true to life obstacles (stairs, half walls, closets, furniture, etc) firefighting obstacles (hoses, other FF's, dropped tools, etc.)

    If you don't know the difference, you've never done it.

    I'm not against mazes and non-burning building training, they are great, they work well, they are wonderful for teaching. They do not replace live fire situations.

    Doesn't make much sense to me to put anybody in a burning building needlessly.
    Finally, something everyone would agree with you on.

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    Bones and Gonzo are 100% correct. Trojanhorse is from anther world...I think... Nothing replaces live fire training! Crawling through a maze is simply a conficence builder.

    Crawling through a burning building is putting to actual use your training.

    No one here (or most of us anyway) is apposed to live fire training. We are opposed to immature, irresponsible, stupid acts that lead to death of firefighters. We support live training in some form whether it be with burn buildings, propane simulators, or acquired structures. However, we all take that one step further by saying that recognized saftey practices (NFPA 1403) must be strictly adhered to and that Firefighter Safety be paramount.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    However, we all take that one step further by saying that recognized saftey practices (NFPA 1403) must be strictly adhered to and that Firefighter Safety be paramount.
    Amen.

    Don't forget that NFPA 1403 is now available online at www.nfpa.org for FREE!

  24. #274
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    Default Thanks, George.

    I went to the website and to my surprise, it is the 2002 updated edition of the 1403 standard! AND IT'S FREE! Thank you, NFPA.
    Thanks, George.
    CR
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    Hmmmm. Maybe I can download it and make some copies for a few departments in the Utica, NY area.

    To ensure good exposure...I could post them at the beer tent.

    If the shoe fits........
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
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