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  1. #21
    MembersZone Subscriber TailboardJockey's Avatar
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    Puffy, it just depends on the department. I work for a department just a few minutes south of SFFD, and we would never get away with just wearing station pants and a turnout coat in a structure fire (although I would like to try it out).
    In California, we all have to adhere to CAL-OSHA, which I've been told is more strict than the federal OSHA. NFPA I believe, is only a recommendation and not a mandatory standard, but if your department chooses to officially adopt NFPA, then you're on the hook to adhere to all NFPA standards. This is my understanding of it, but I could be wrong.

    GO SHARKS!
    Living the dream...


  2. #22
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    JUST WHAT I HEARD, THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION. WASN'T SURE THAT IS WHY I PUT IT OUT THERE. STAY SAFE!
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
    Chief 1899-1911
    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

  3. #23
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    I don't have the experience of Stay Low, so I leave a quote with you:
    BTW- I too would much rather wear the wools.

    1. How does the wool do in high heat?

    Sometimes it gets hot, but you find out your limitations through experience. The wool does not offer the protection bunker pants do, but there are advantages to the wool. The wool is more maneuverable and less restrictive. It is far cooler than the bunker pants. The station boots are far better to work in. Particularly on a peaked roof and ladders.

    2. Does the dept. Frequently have burn injuries?

    No we donít. The wool works better than you think.


    3. Does the rest of the dept. share your sentiments in not wanting to go to bunkers?

    Most donít want to wear them during the day. They would rather wear the wool for the reasons above.

    4. Do you currently have issued bunker pants?

    Yes. Two pair each. We wear them at night to seep up response time.


    5. What jobs will now be required to wear bunkers?

    I canít think of any requirement for wearing the bunker pants. From what I understand OSHA is OK with the wool, but the NFPA wants the bunker pants. So, it is up to the administration to decide.
    As of yet, the administration hasn't come out with anything definitive. Yet more rumors are out about how we will probably be switching away from wool pants and then be required to wear the turnout pants during the day OVER whatever it is they decide for us to wear. In the meantime- it's business as usual.

  4. #24
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    I actually had a student ask me basically the same question in the Basic class I'm teaching. Thanks XO for posting the link to the other posts, it was that link that gave me the answer to give my students. As far as lighter cooler material, what we have now basically came out of technology and NASA. They have newer materials from what most companies will tell you, they are always trying research to find them, but if you read NFPA 1971, they have to pass that test to be NFPA Complient. And they are rather stringent as far as burn testing, and wear testing. Thanks for the info from the SFFD brothers. For me I'll stick with my bunkers, that's what I'm used to and like. They may make my body temp rise, but I've felt just as hot with 3/4's on, and with proper rehab it really shouldn't be a problem.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

  5. #25
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    Boney-T,
    I was at a NFPA 1500 meeting back in the mid-1990's in San Diego and one of the incidents that was highlighted was 2 SFFD firefighters with MAJOR burn injuries to their buttocks and legs and I wouldn't doubt there have been others. Are there advantages/disadvantages either way? sure, but I think to imply that wearing wools doesn't leave you susceptible to much more serious injury than bunkers is misleading and there are serious injuries out there to prove that - with I'm sure SFFD with a fair share of those.

  6. #26
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    Don't get me wrong, I don't suggest that wools will protect you as well as bunker pants. I am sure that there are lots of guys who have been burned in their wools. I think Stay-Low said it best when he suggested that everyone will find their level of comfort. In the event of flashover or the sudden introduction of high heat and/or flame, then with your wools on, you are literally caught with your pants down. In these cases, you will also be very lucky to get out without injuries even with all your bunker gear on- yes, they won't be as severe. Also, try crawling down the hot-river hallway in wool pants. It's not pretty, but again, we come to the preference issue.

    Personally, I like having my bunker pants on when we get into the sh*t because of the protection they offer, they really do a great job on fire-attack. I don't like wearing them when I'm climbing a ladder and/or working on a peaked roof. And I think that getting in and out of these things all day long when working one of the downtown rigs that regularly run more than 20 a day would drive me nuts. And, for every building alarm? SF has a TON of highrises and the building alarms to match, you gonna climb all those stairs all day long in your bunker pants? I suppose pretty soon I will be.

    I feel like I don't really need to point this out, but there are a whole lot of different/unique situations here, and I hope that they're taken into consideration when the administation makes their decisions.

    I can only hope that my boss will make good decisions so that when I've got my wools on (chances are so will he and the rest of the crew) we won't get caught in a bad situation. Having good tactics and a sane head on your shoulders goes a long way toward safety no matter what you're wearing.

  7. #27
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    Amen Boney.Every situation is different.And for some reason I am compelled to agree with denver GASP If I have said it once i have said it a thousand times.Everyone does it different.Solid pipe versus fog I am right you are wrong! 3/4 versus full pants,red vs yellow.Deal with it people! I am sick of the NFPA police out there saying it is my dept.s way or no way.Come on guys do it the way your guidelines say and let those with their way be.
    Our trucks are yellow and we dont use straight pipes.but we have no prob with those that do

  8. #28
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    Truckie, Amen. Just because some people do it different than someone else does NOT make it wrong, just different. Sometimes I wish we could get away with just 'wools', others I thank God for my bunkers.


    Boney,
    Is the 'street splitter' on Geary still open? I haven't been in the city for a couple of years. I grew up in Fresno, and my Sis works in an animal hospital on Filmore. I miss the Deli's.
    Craig Walker

    Union Strong...Union Proud

    An Irishman is the only person in the world who would walk over 12 naked women to get to a bottle of Stout.

  9. #29
    Senior Member shammrock54's Avatar
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    I am glad that some good answers to this question has come out, b/c it was in my mind when i happened to watch that episode of bravest and while i have a different view i will agree w/ the above and leave it simply as......TO EACH HIS/HER OWN.
    Member IACOJ & IACOJ EMS Bureau
    New England FOOL
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    As always these are strictly my own opinions and views

  10. #30
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    Diver,

    The street splitter is Station 34. They're out there near the end of Geary where Point Lobos splits off (if you have a map...) Still open.

    If you have a minute (and Internet Explorer- sorry, the site doesn't work with Netscape) check this out... I put it together so I wouldn't get lost when I was a probie.

    SF Station Map

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