1. #1
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    Question SFFD bunker? pants?

    i was just wondering, why does the SFFD have 70's looking bunker pants.
    they seriously look like dress pants material. are these nasty things for rescue crews only or what?
    they dont even have any reflectors/markings on them.

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    Default NO PANTS!

    I was watching the bravest I and acually belive that they dont wear any bunker pants, I watched then bunker up and they just put there coat on, unless they are some high tech kinda pants.

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    That and the rescue squad company was riding on top of the rig w/ no gate or mansaver at the rear and there helmets appear to be way outta date. I saw that episode of Bravest and wondered if SFFD had ever heard of NFPA before.
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    Talking

    ok good, thats where i saw them too, on the bravest, and i also noticed them riding on the walk in rescue truck and wondered the same thing.
    -just making sure i wasnt crazy

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    Default

    Since I've not seen any SFFD members lately, here's a link to a similar thread posted after those Bravest episodes first aired: http://www.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=17905

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    San Francisco? California? They have a fire department?

    They wear their gear to bed but it is too cumbersome for onscene activities.

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    Default duh

    if they did have bunker pants, i wonder what color suspenders they would use and why?

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    Default WEATHER!??!

    I wonder what the rescue co. guys do when it rains..??? Makes me wonder...
    Andrew
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    Don't knock it, if you've never fought fire with a super short coat, wool dress pants, Red Wing boots brush gloves and a light weight air pack. You get in quick, have complete mobility, have a better sense for what is going on around you, arrive at the fire or rescue with more energy after making your way to the room of origin. Everyone in California had a choice to wear complete or partial gear for decades. They cannot prove a statistical case one way or another. SO, it is a tie with or without turnout pants.

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    They cannot prove a statistical case for wearing fire resistant gear????? I personally do not wear a helmet, because no one has proven statistically that it helps either.
    Last edited by BucksEngine78; 04-23-2002 at 07:55 AM.

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    Thier is some good scientific evidence that bunker gear causes firefighter's core temps to rise faster and higher than firefighters with just coats on. Perhaps they are like Boston and more concerned with FF stress than a potenntial safety.
    To the original question, I think the bunker pants were just that"bunker pants" not turnout pants. We had the old bunker pants when we had 3/4 boots.

    During the day you had your uniform on and put on the 3/4 boots for calls. At night you slept in your underwear and pulled on the "bunker pants" They were just canvas, no pockets or stripes. We had black suspenders, sorry not red

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    Default Damn.....

    SFFD, well I believe they SHOULD wear bunkers, if it is called for, if it is something stupit like a small brush fire or a MVA, then no need for them. I am superised that there Insurance covers them, and with there Rescue w/ no top, wowie, if u did that in NJ u would never hear the end of it. Well maybe it is trudation? Like Chicago FD w/ the pull-up bunker boots, I personnaly like them in a sense, but I fell they don't give the 100% protection. But they are paid Departments, they do what they want. I am only A Volly. Whatever flots there boats I guess. Take Care and Stay safe.
    Dan M. B.
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    I don't know why someone doesn't come up with a less heavy/cooler set of turnouts that are just as effective or more effective then what we have now. Surely there are smarter people then us that realize the need for it.


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    Default Oh my GAWD!!!!

    That one guy also had on NYLON shoe laces! How can he get away with that?!?! They might melt in a fire since he doesn't wear any turnout gear! He should at least wear leather laces in his boots, so they don't melt and fall off his feet!

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    Yep, last time I checked only 80% of us were using our scotts in heavy smoke conditions, only 30% of us bothered to buckle our turnout coat and I even heard of one guy who wears his station uniform and sneakers for all fires- AND has been seen smoking a cigar while manning the pipe! I haven't met him yet, but I sure want to learn his tricks- it sounds sooooooo cool! Besides, I need to learn how to keep my cigars lit in such low oxygen atmospheres.

    And for the color of my suspenders-- That's between me and the inside of my coat.
    Last edited by BoneyT; 04-23-2002 at 01:32 PM.

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    I thought at one time SFFD was wearing nomex uniform pants or FR Cotton. I noticed that they do wear the bunker pants at night. It is my understanding from reading previous threads (already mentioned) that until recently they still issued the 3/4 boots and just recently went to the option of bunker pants.

    As far as NFPa goes....we all know that is an open debate. It is a nationally recognized standard, but if a department choses not to follow it, then it is up to them. They are suggested practices and operating standards....not mandatory.

    We can not bust on SFFD for not wearing pants...I am sure we all have our own inter-departmental problems that need to be cleaned before we try cleaning their house.

    I dont advocate the lack of pants.....but it is certainly not our decision and apparently it has not caused any problems for them to this point. Seeing the injury stats for burns to the legs etc., may clear this question up.

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    Default SF Bay Area Turnouts

    Who needs a coat? I just wear polypro underwear and my leather helmet on fire calls! If you work fast enough, it won't melt to your skin before the fire's out!

    Living the dream...

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    I hope this goes into a nice one about which is better bunker pants, or 3/4 boots.

    Had both... want the 3/4 boots back, but also want a 15% raise... dont see either happening soon.

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    There was a post here awhile back (a year or so ago)that brought up this question & the answer back from some SFFD boyz explained why they DIDN'T whear bunker pants. Had something 2 do w/the pants bein' 100 % wool, they'd always done it, they'd study'd it, it worked, blah, blah, blah, & in the end it DID seem that the SFFD made a compelling case 4 their "tradition".

    Has anyone stopped 2 think that the manufactures of turn-out gear had something 2 do with NFPA reg's??? Maybe SFFD is (has been) on 2 something? Just a thought. Peace, Out.

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    I ONCE ASKED SOMEONE ABOUT THIS. I WAS TOLD THAT IN CALIFORNIA, TEHY ONLY HAVE TO ADHERE TO CAL-OSHA STANDARDS. NOT FEDERAL OSHA OR NFPA AND THAT IS WHY CAN WEAR PRETTY MUCH WHAT THEY WANT WITHIN REASON AND THAT IS THE REASON THE GEAR IS DIFFERENT OUT THERE. UNCONFIRMED, CAN ANYBODY CONFIRM OR DENY THIS?
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

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    Puffy, it just depends on the department. I work for a department just a few minutes south of SFFD, and we would never get away with just wearing station pants and a turnout coat in a structure fire (although I would like to try it out).
    In California, we all have to adhere to CAL-OSHA, which I've been told is more strict than the federal OSHA. NFPA I believe, is only a recommendation and not a mandatory standard, but if your department chooses to officially adopt NFPA, then you're on the hook to adhere to all NFPA standards. This is my understanding of it, but I could be wrong.

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    JUST WHAT I HEARD, THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION. WASN'T SURE THAT IS WHY I PUT IT OUT THERE. STAY SAFE!
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

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    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

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    I don't have the experience of Stay Low, so I leave a quote with you:
    BTW- I too would much rather wear the wools.

    1. How does the wool do in high heat?

    Sometimes it gets hot, but you find out your limitations through experience. The wool does not offer the protection bunker pants do, but there are advantages to the wool. The wool is more maneuverable and less restrictive. It is far cooler than the bunker pants. The station boots are far better to work in. Particularly on a peaked roof and ladders.

    2. Does the dept. Frequently have burn injuries?

    No we donít. The wool works better than you think.


    3. Does the rest of the dept. share your sentiments in not wanting to go to bunkers?

    Most donít want to wear them during the day. They would rather wear the wool for the reasons above.

    4. Do you currently have issued bunker pants?

    Yes. Two pair each. We wear them at night to seep up response time.


    5. What jobs will now be required to wear bunkers?

    I canít think of any requirement for wearing the bunker pants. From what I understand OSHA is OK with the wool, but the NFPA wants the bunker pants. So, it is up to the administration to decide.
    As of yet, the administration hasn't come out with anything definitive. Yet more rumors are out about how we will probably be switching away from wool pants and then be required to wear the turnout pants during the day OVER whatever it is they decide for us to wear. In the meantime- it's business as usual.

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    I actually had a student ask me basically the same question in the Basic class I'm teaching. Thanks XO for posting the link to the other posts, it was that link that gave me the answer to give my students. As far as lighter cooler material, what we have now basically came out of technology and NASA. They have newer materials from what most companies will tell you, they are always trying research to find them, but if you read NFPA 1971, they have to pass that test to be NFPA Complient. And they are rather stringent as far as burn testing, and wear testing. Thanks for the info from the SFFD brothers. For me I'll stick with my bunkers, that's what I'm used to and like. They may make my body temp rise, but I've felt just as hot with 3/4's on, and with proper rehab it really shouldn't be a problem.

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    Boney-T,
    I was at a NFPA 1500 meeting back in the mid-1990's in San Diego and one of the incidents that was highlighted was 2 SFFD firefighters with MAJOR burn injuries to their buttocks and legs and I wouldn't doubt there have been others. Are there advantages/disadvantages either way? sure, but I think to imply that wearing wools doesn't leave you susceptible to much more serious injury than bunkers is misleading and there are serious injuries out there to prove that - with I'm sure SFFD with a fair share of those.

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