Does your department have staffing trouble during daytime calls? How do you address the issue?
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04-25-2002, 07:49 PM #1
nooners...Spec. Krista M. Aukeman, United States Army
Some day, in years to come, you will be wrestling with the great temptation, or trembling under the great sorrow of your life. But the real struggle is here, now, in these quiet weeks. Now it is being decided whether, in the day of your supreme sorrow or temptation, you shall miserably fail or gloriously conquer. Character cannot be made except by a steady, long continued process.
- Phillips Brooks
04-25-2002, 08:00 PM #2
We don't have that problem because we have enough people available. Other districts around us do have that problem so we'll actually do daytime automatic aid. That way if there is activity, it's covered. Of course as a last resort, dispatch will call out for "all available manpower" which usually means that warm bodies are needed.
Surprisingly, most of our calls ARE daytime calls."When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"
05-14-2002, 07:34 PM #3
- Join Date
- May 2002
- fort worth texas
we have staffing problems in the morning, afternoon, and night we are a small paid department that is faced with an increasing call volume and not an increase in staff we depend on auto aid from the surrounding cities and they depend on us for hte same there are times that there are mutiple calls and the response in great to the other call but to look on ht ebright side the city sees this and is getting aggresive about stafing and are adding more firefighters the plan is in the next five years to staff two companies with a six man shiftI PROVIDE A NAMELESS FACELESS SERVICE TO A COMMUNITY THAT RARELY KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY NEED ME IF I AM CALLED FROM A SOUND SLEEP TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE TRYING TO SAVE THE PROPERTY OR LIFE OF SOMEONE I DO NOT KNOW I WILL DO SO WITHOUT REGRET
From the book "The Heart Behind The Hero" from Jon Mc Duffie in memory of Joe Dupee LAFD
05-14-2002, 09:47 PM #4
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- New Hampshire
we usually don't have a lot of people around during the day. we solve the problem with mutual aid. another time we don't get a lot of people is when a call get tone as something that sounds routine and turns out to be bigger. for example when a fire alarm activation is actually a fire and every stayed home because usually fire alarmactivations are alarm malfunctions. usually when something is toned as a structure fire people will come.
05-14-2002, 10:52 PM #5
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Raritan Twp, New Jersey
we dont have big crews during the day but enough to get through the call. we dont really get big fires during the day were its just us. if there big enough we would have another company there.Jeff Gurski
05-14-2002, 11:12 PM #6
- Join Date
- May 2000
- Wheaton IL
At my part time dept we staff an engine and ambulance. Most calls we are lucky to get a second rig out during the day. We depend on auto aid companies for a second eng and truck.
Even at my full time dept we have auto aid comming in on all report of fires. We staff 2 Eng, 2 Amb, 1 Rescue, 1 Tower.
05-15-2002, 08:41 AM #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
Like alot of Volunteer departments in a bedroom community
we have, at times, some problems.
We utilize automatic mutual aid for certain types of calls,
structure fires and PI's. If we get enough of our own personnel
we cancel enroute. As they say it is better to have too much
help enroute then not enough.
Last edited by rcrompm46; 05-22-2002 at 10:57 AM.
05-15-2002, 04:17 PM #8when the words "structure fire" come across the pager, manning is never an issue
We don't have a day manning problem because every call is the 'big one', whether it's a brush fire, a 'lifting assistance' call or a life threatening taxpayer fire.
Of course if work or family are keeping you away-ok-- but doing the glamorous stuff and avoiding the dirty work just because it's dirty work--well that doesn't go far around here. When I played hockey, we called those guys 'hangers' (hockey players would know what I mean)"When you are safe at home, you wish you were having an adventure-when you're having an adventure, you wish you were safe at home"
05-15-2002, 04:45 PM #9
- Join Date
- Sep 2001
- S.E. Idaho
Paid job: Run a 3 man engine company. Reported structure fire we have automatic aid with adjoining FD's. We get 3 engines and a truck dispatched on all structure fires.
Volunteer: Always short, daytime or night. We are used to it. We have learned to adapt and overcome our shortfalls. Not uncommon to pull up to a single family dwelling with smoke and flame showing and having the next in engine 10 minutes out. Sometimes we can pull a second engine. But you can never fully expect it to be there. You know you have one, allbeit short, you have one engine and you have to improvise. Not a whole lot more you can do about it...
05-15-2002, 05:55 PM #10
Most Sub-Urban volunteer FD's have a problem with Daytime response. some attempt to adress the problem, others just go for the hope for the best approach.
05-15-2002, 06:01 PM #11
We are blessed right now with good turnout regardless of the time. We are volunteer and lucky to have people who work night shifts around during the day, and people who work day shift around during the night. Also have some guys who work for themselves in construction and such that are around most all the time. We average 8-12 guys on our first 2 trucks with on scene time within 6 minutes. If needed, next 2 trucks are within 3 minutes and have another 6-10 guys. We are lucky right now with our turnout. I can remember when times were not so good...
05-16-2002, 12:09 PM #12
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
- Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
Workday daytime personnel response is normally sporadic. Most of us work out of district and commute at least 25 miles each way - sucks to be us. But we do have a pretty good mutual aid agreement with our 2 really close neighbours, and there is a 3rd, but they are a little too far for most calls.
As was stated before, it mostly depends what the call is. Multi car MVA, it would depend on what part of the district, because traffic on the highway will of course be a major factor, FR calls are not usually well attended, meaning only 2 or maybe 3 will be available. Structure fires - experience has shown that no matter where any one of us works, WE SWARM OUT OF THE WOOD WORK!!! Ever see cockroachs run from the light, well I guess just like a moth, a firefighter is DRAWN INTO IT! Go figure, eh.
Because of the small attendance capability during the work day, my Boss, the Major has consented that for pretty much any call, FR response aside, I am able to cut and run if needed. And have done so on 2 occasions now. Its great to work for the Western Canada Search and Rescue organization!!! This is a place where timely response is recognized and expected.
Poor 'Ole FF26 has the farthest to drive at close to 40 miles each way, but has no car to do the job - yet. Really suck part for him, is he works on the other side of the Saanich Inlet, across from our district, and gets really great radio/pager reception. So he knows exactly what is going on, with whom and even what the mutual aid districts are up to, but can't get back fast enough. Oh well, sorry J.If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)
"I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD
"Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)
Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!
impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto
IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.
05-16-2002, 12:14 PM #13"No one ever called the Fire Department for doing something smart..."
05-16-2002, 01:53 PM #14
Only checked out this topic cause of the thread's name: "nooners..." I was just wondering what kind of can o' worms was being opened here. Was just hoping the first words were not, 'So my LT caught my wife/girlfriend/hubby in the bunkroom with me..." Thank God you were talking about firecalls.
So, I was daydreaming about the past: I've been in departments (volunteer) that have never had problems with ven routine day time calls, but at my college town in northern PA, I remember a "nooner" (ha ha) house fire. We waited at the station for over 5 minutes with only 3 people showing up, no driver. Once another station responded with an engine and called into dispatch "limited manpower" (heck the rig only had seating for 4) we loaded some air packs and spare bottles in the back of my truck and joined that empty engine. Kinnda like bringing the hotdog buns and counting on someone to bring the weenies.
The best thing I can think of if you have trouble manning "nooners" (had to get one more in) is having a good friendship with your mutual aid.**************************
---NO RETREAT... NO SURRENDER---
______Look Ma'... No Hands______
05-16-2002, 01:59 PM #15
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
- Houston area
Paid job: Staffed trucks with automatic mutual aid.
Volunteer: Dept serves about 65 square miles, about 70,000 people. We have seven stations. We run a paid crew of 6 (4 on a pumper, 2 on a booster) certified firefighters who work there on their off days from their paid jobs out of the most centrally located station to any calls within the district, from 0700-1700 hrs Mon-Fri. And automatic mutual aid.These are my opinions and not those of the organizations for which I work and/or volunteer.
05-18-2002, 11:49 PM #16
- Join Date
- Jun 2001
- MN USA
I realize this won't work for everyone, but in cities with some resources but not enough for a full-time career department, a duty crew might work like it has in some of the Minneapolis suburbs. POC FFs bid for shifts and a crew of four is at the station during the daytime (in 3, 4 ,6 hour shifts, whatever). The crew handles the "smells and bells" calls, does Public Ed, visits schools and senior citizens, runs department errands, does training and truck maintenance, etc., and gets paid for the time they're there at their POC rate. I'm sure it would work with true vollies, too. If The Big One hits, we still call the cavalry, including mutual aid, but we also have an engine crew or truck crew (often plus a senior officer like a chief) on scene in a few minutes. The duty crew program is a major reason one Mpls. suburb went from a 5 to a 3 in ISO ratings this last time.
05-20-2002, 10:41 AM #17
We are a paid on call fire dept. with a first responder unit serving a primarily a suburban bedroom community of about 8000 people. Our department has 1 full time Fire Inspector who works during the day 8am-5pm who will respond on calls when he is available. Usually he is available but not all the time. Otherwise, during the day most of the time we have someone around to handle things. On a structure fire page it always seems like people come out of the woodwork enough to get about 5-7 guys to be first out. We have one secretary who is strictly administrative. Our fire chief is considered full time as well being the "Public Safety Director" who is the fire chief/police chief but does not respond to calls unless requested.
Where we have staffing problems is early morning from about 4am to about 6am. Lately we have had a couple of EMS calls during this time where we were paged at least twice with a long response time. There has been a few calls where no one responded before. In our city, the police officers go to EMS calls whenever possible and the city contracts with a private ambulance service so it's not like these people aren't getting service.
Otherwise we have been pretty lucky with staffing. We have guys who work all shifts, some straight shifts and some rotating so with that we usually get someone most of the time. Unless its opening day of deer hunting! Then just the "non-hunters" are left to deal with things. I think there are 2 of them now.
Altoona Fire Rescue
05-21-2002, 10:25 PM #18
We usually do not have a problem, except for once in a while maybe for a driver (usually for routine calls, i.e. wires down, pump details, etc.) There's always the young and eager ones around.
The East Battalion in our County has the Automatic Mutual Aid set up between the four Fire Districts on ANY reported Structure Fires. I think alot of Volunteer Departments set this up for daytime structure fires."The uniform is supposed to say something about you. You get it for nothing, but it comes with a history, so do the right thing when you're in it."
Battalion Chief Ed Schoales
from 'Report from Ground Zero' pg 149
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