Spawned by the High Rise pack thread (and someone even mentioned that they use their "high rise" pack for extended or hard to reach places - I was curious how many other folks were doing this and what they were using.
My FD protects some residences that, in order to get up the driveway, you have to cross some pretty questionable bridges. Although we haven't had a fire in one of these yet - I can see the potential for having to hand stretch a 2-1/2" or 3" line in from the road and then split it into hand lines with the reducing wye (gated in our case).
Although we carry all the nesecary "pieces" on the first in truck - they are not all stored or "bagged" so as to speed the process.
One thought I had was that rather than using a pack was to have one 150' 1-3/4" line in a dead lay in the hosebed with the wye preconnected and then have a second 150' line bundled dead to be carried in by the next arriving truck or POV'ers
I am looking for input / suggestions from anyone in a similar situation to speed the process and to make it workable with a minimum of people.
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Thread: Extended Lay Packs
04-26-2002, 07:59 PM #1
Extended Lay PacksTake Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
04-26-2002, 08:10 PM #2
What you're talking about is called a "Cisco Load", probably because it was first used in San Francisco. It was used a lot as a pre-connect in older trucks that didn't have matteydales.
One of my former companies used it on the trucks without crosslays and it worked great. We have 200 ft of 2 1/2" connected to a rear discharge, a gated wye with 2 150' sections of 1 1/2" strapped to it. The best part of using it is when you take the wye to the front door you have 150' of usable hose. You don't lose any in the driveway or front yard.
It's a shame it's not used much any more but I still demonstrate it when I teach a hose packing class.
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in your application.Steve Dragon
FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
Volunteers are never "off duty".
04-27-2002, 08:29 PM #3
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- Houston, TX
We have 600' of 3" high-pressure hose (also used for our standpipe hose to develope the high pressures needed to pump into 80 story high-rises), with a water-thief or gated-wye on the end, flat loaded in the rear hosebed. All of our pre-connects (crosslays) have a short pig-tail with the coupling exposed for easy disconnecting. The 3" is deployed to a point closer to the area of involvement and the pre-connects are brought there and connected. Works pretty well for us.
04-29-2002, 09:43 AM #4
- Join Date
- Jan 1999
- Howell, Mi. U.S.A.
This is what we have on our Engine-"Leader Line" of approx.600 feet of 2.5" connected to a gated-wye, reduced down to 150 feet of 1.75". You can pull off as much 2.5" as needed and have the Engineer connect and youre ready to go to town-we also have a 100 foot bundle of 1.75" with a straight bore nozzle that can be connected to the other side of the wye or used to lengthen a stretch of hose."Stay Safe, Stay Low and lets Rock-n-Roll"
04-30-2002, 09:38 AM #5
All our Structure Fire Rigs have a 150' - 1 3/4" high rise bundle with a short section of 2 1/2" (about 3') that we can pull a 200' 2 1/2" preconnect. If more than 200' is needed our rigs have 500' of 2 1/2" in the bed.Stay Safe & Bring 'em Home!
I.A.F.F. Local 3008
"Doin' it for lives n' property"
** "The comments made here are this person's views and not that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **
04-30-2002, 01:23 PM #6
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
- Houston area
We try new stuff periodically. What we've got now is 150' of 1.75" bundled nice and tight with straps that one person can carry without dragging it around on the ground. At the end of this is a wye connected to 3". The bundle is stored up on the hose bed, with a strap that can be reached from the tailboard without climbing up on the truck. Up on the hose bed is the other 150' 1.75" bundled up all neat, but not attached to anything. Reasoning is team 1 can advance line one and get started, team 2 can come in later with their own hose to hook up to the wye, but in the meantime it remains out of the way. We used to have 250' of 1.75" preconnected off the back, but decided to eliminate it altogether, figuring if you needed that much hose length you'd be better off pumping the apt lay anyway (less friction loss and all).These are my opinions and not those of the organizations for which I work and/or volunteer.
04-30-2002, 01:33 PM #7
I might have been the one who mentioned the extended reach in that high rise thread. We have 400' of 2 1/2" dead lay on the hose bed. We use a bag with 2 handles which carries 2 100' 1 3/4" lines that are connected to the gated wye. Our first two guys grab that bag and carry it close to the fire scene. They drop/open the bag and advance one of the hose lines to the front of the fire. While they are carrying the bag, another 2 guys are dragging the 2 1/2" to where the bag is or is going to be. Driver will connect the 2 1/2" to truck discharge and charge it. First 2 guys are at the door with the first 1 3/4", on of the second group will connect to the wye and open the first lines gate. The other guy from the second group will begin advancing the second line. Once that line is stretched the gate is opened. 2 lines in use. 1 attack, 1 for backup line or additional attack. This can be done with less guys, but it goes a bit smoother this way. I was never a big fan of only stretching one line as if there is a problem with that one line, you have a big delay getting a second one in place. 2 lines, 2 chances. Stay Safe and have fun.
05-15-2002, 12:17 PM #8
- Join Date
- May 2002
- fort worth texas
kinda funny we have a high rise pack but no high rises but we do have a underground school with standpipes besides covering our city we cover a smaller city that has many large houses that sit off the road some have gates that the engine won't pass through this leaves us 500' from the fire we have 900' of 3" hose on our engines and our high rise pack is 100' of 1 3/4 on a gated wye when the need arises we have the option of pulling the 3" and using it to supply the 1 3/4 back to our undergroung school if it ever catches on fire you are not going to know the location of hte fire just that you have smoke comming from the exhaust the standpipes are in the hallways so you are faced with the decision of hooking up to the standpipe and entering the fire building without a handline or pulling the 3" to hte base of the stairs and hooking the highris pack there and then advancing into the school as for me i am going for the 3" and then later hook up to the standpipe with the pack from the second engine and since the school was built before they required sprinklers it is going to take someone with there collars turned up and a pair to open that doorI PROVIDE A NAMELESS FACELESS SERVICE TO A COMMUNITY THAT RARELY KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY NEED ME IF I AM CALLED FROM A SOUND SLEEP TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE TRYING TO SAVE THE PROPERTY OR LIFE OF SOMEONE I DO NOT KNOW I WILL DO SO WITHOUT REGRET
From the book "The Heart Behind The Hero" from Jon Mc Duffie in memory of Joe Dupee LAFD
05-21-2002, 01:30 AM #9
We have something similar to the "Cisco Load"
On our engines we have something we call the "Appartment Lay."
This is just a hosebed of 2 1/2" hose with a gated wye on the end. The idea is whenever the engine cannot get close enough to the building to use our 200' 1 1/2" preconnects, we will pull what we need of the appartment lay to get to the door. Then we connect the triple lay to the gated wye and off we go.
We have quite a few of appartment buildings, as well as other expensive homes near the lake, that cannot be reached very well with our preconnects, hence the name "Appartment Lay."
Keep your head down and your powder dry!
Altoona Fire Rescue
05-22-2002, 09:11 AM #10
Thank to everyone who has replied thus far.
Right now we have everything we need equipment wise to create a extended lay pack - it's down to just being able to convince everyone to assemble the pack and put it on the first out engine.
What I'm thinking about doing right now is creating 2 seperate packs of 150' 1-3/4" hose w/ Nozzle (what ever the Dept.'s flavor of the day may be).
Pack #1 would be preconected to the gated reducing Wye whereas pack #2 would be a simple bundle for the second-in team to bring as a back up line.
If anyone else has suggestions or comments, please add them on here.Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
06-01-2002, 01:22 PM #11
Look into Chicago style loads. They go by many names, but commonly called- reverse outs, skid loads, high rise loads. Try several variations out before you commit though.celer et audax
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