Just a bit concerned with the technique that was used in "Make the Call #14. Car vs tree".
I question the use of the hydraulic shears as a base to perform a dash roll as depicted in the photo below. Whilst I have no issue with clamping the spreaders in this fashion, then using a ram to do the dash roll, they are far stronger than shears.
All tool manufacturers, as far as I am aware stress the importance of shear blades seperating and twisting. By clamping in this fashion, then spreading off them, I beleive you are applying excess force on the blades.
Was anyone at this accident? Would it have been better to use the spreaders and ram? How well did this technique work?
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04-27-2002, 03:05 AM #1
Make The Call #14. Technique Concerns....Luke
04-30-2002, 11:51 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- SYKESVILLE, MARYLAND
YOU MAKE THE CALL
LUTAN, I AGREE WITH NOT USING THE SHEARS AS AN ANCHOR. I HAVE WITNESSED MISUSE OF A HURST SHEAR AND THE BROKEN BLADE BECAME A MISSILE. NEVER TO BE FOUND. WITH THE PHOTO PROVIDED COULD THEY NOT HAVE USED A RAM TO THE BOTTOM OF THE "B" POST AND ACCOMPLISHED THE SAME EFFECT?
05-01-2002, 04:04 AM #3
Someone finally replied!
Yoda- Without actually being there, it most definitely appears that they could have used the ram onto the B pillar.
The only exception I see to that, and have come across it, is when the car is bent out of shape. The car may be in a curved shape from the impact which means the B pillar and A pillar are not in line with each other. The casualties seat may be in the way of the direct line push. In that case, you would have to clamp and push....Luke
05-01-2002, 09:16 AM #4
Could also be that with the deformity of the dashboard, they may have felt they did not have an adequate purchase point on the dashboard side. I have not tried this, but would be curious to see if a ram will still push a dashboard when it is used horizontally to the floorboard. Anyone ever try? Looking at the damage, they may not have been able to get the ram on anything high enough on the dash side.
05-01-2002, 02:39 PM #5
Not to overlook the obvious but perhaps they simply didn't have any rams available.
I know that until about 4 years ago all the hydraulic tools my FD carried was an O-cutter and a Spreader. Nearest M/A truck w/ rams was 10 to 15 minutes away from the Nearest point in our district to them.
I agree wholehartedly that this type of technique should be avoided but sometimes we all do what we have to do with what we have to work with (even when we know it's wrong).Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
05-01-2002, 04:44 PM #6
Hey Bones- I have tried the dash roll with the ram used horizontally. We call it a dash push. It does work. Dependending on where it is placed, ie:how high or low?, it works OK.
We had an accident a while ago where the drivers foot went through the fire wall. We cleared as much away from around the foot and then pushed the dash forward, instead of rolling it up and away.
Perhaps a dash lift would have worked better in this photo series. Cut away the side of the assembly near the victims legs, placed the spreaders in this opening and open them up, lifting the dashboard up....Luke
05-01-2002, 04:51 PM #7
Further to my last, this is where it can sometimes work against us by automatically removing the roof.
The roof provides a lot of structural integrity to the car. By removing it, you remove this integrity and in some cases you will get a lot of panels and components flexing, but not really moving a great distance.
If in this scenario, you wanted to push the dash as Bones suggested, because the roof is gone, if you placed the ram mid way up on the B pillar, without a roof, the B pillar will flex and move around a lot more....
We need to think of our plan B, before we do plan A. What we do in plan A might affect the outcome of plan B. (Sounds confusing?!)
Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.Luke
05-01-2002, 05:26 PM #8
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
I don't know if this would have worked here but how about cutting the a post low and then again 3to6 inches higher then using the spreaders to lift the dash?
05-01-2002, 11:22 PM #9
What if . . .
It's hard to tell what all is going on from this one limited shot, but what about moving the seat back away from the dash (either by releasing it's normal ajustment lever, forcing it with the spreaders or even unbolting it ?? (All done with propper C-spine control & precautions)
I know that extrication is all about the art of removing the metal from around the Pt., but sometimes it's easier, quicker, and safer to move the Pt. away from the metal.Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
05-02-2002, 12:36 AM #10
I agree with afd2510, we have had a lot of success making two relief cuts then using the spreaders (not the cutters) to roll the dash. Maybe I am not looking at the picture right (could be my eyes) but it looks like they are using the spreaders and not shears.
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