I'm looking for Pro's and Con's from anyone that has a Quint in service. We have never owned one but we are considering the purchase of one in the near future.
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04-29-2002, 07:31 PM #1
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Peabody, MA
04-29-2002, 10:07 PM #2
- Join Date
- Aug 2000
- a big city
look into the e-one hp75 side stacker the best quint out there it will give you the best bang for your buck.cp
04-30-2002, 12:28 AM #3
We need more info
If it will be your first "aerial" apparatus then I would say go with a quint. I would not reccomend it if you already have an aerial device.
The quints are nice if they are used as a first aerial device it will ease you into truck work, however if you are used to true truck work then you will have a hard time getting used to the quints "multi tool" abilities.
The quint can not replace a truck nor can it replace an engine. Yes it does engine company work and yes it does do truck work, but it does nothing well. There is not enough compartment space for truck items and not enough ladder room. If you cover a highway it will only carry a small ammount of water and will be a pain in the neck to load hose working around the boom.
If your dept. is career the city fathers may tell you it would be better and may even tell you it won't reduce staffing be very leary of this. They maybe looking for a reason to cut staffing and may say a "multi tool" will do more with less.
The quints can do a lot if properly staffed but they are more of a hassle in my opinion. I would rather have a truck and an engine with 2 and 3 staffing than a Qint with 4.Fyrtrks
04-30-2002, 01:02 AM #4
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
Mind if we discuss your post?
"The quints are nice if they are used as a first aerial device it will ease you into truck work, however if you are used to true truck work then you will have a hard time getting used to the quints "multi tool" abilities. "
Why couldn't they buy a quint and just use it as a ladder to ease into it? What difference does it make early onif they don't use the firefighting portion? Certainly the quint offers more firefighting ability than any lone ladder.
"The quint can not replace a truck nor can it replace an engine."
Why can't a 100' foot quint replace a 100 foot ladder? Give us a concrete reason or two to support that statement. It is doing it all over the country.
""The quint can not replace a truck nor can it replace an engine."
Why can't a quint replace a pumper, give us some concrete reasons. It is obvious they are in fact doing that all over the country.
" Yes it does engine company work and yes it does do truck work, but it does nothing well."
Oh come on! So all the FD's without real ladders or real engines are operating half way? Give me a list of examples of what it can't do well? Say a 65 foot squirt quint versus an engine or 65 foot ladder truck it replaced.
" There is not enough compartment space for truck items"
Isn't that a specing issue? I know my quint carries everything and them some a standard ladder carries. What don't I carry?
"and not enough ladder room."
" If you cover a highway it will only carry a small ammount of water"
I have two 95 foot towers on order with 1000 gallon tanks, what can't they do your 500 gallon water tank can do? What can't a quint with a 2000 gallon tank do a 500, 750 or 1000 gallon engine can do? Why do so many volunteer non-hydranted areas run then including all the best rural ISO graded FD's?
" and will be a pain in the neck to load hose working around the boom. "
Gee, we don't work around a boom to load hose, nor do Smeal users, E-One users, KME users, La France users, Quality users, AI users, etc.
"If your dept. is career the city fathers may tell you it would be better and may even tell you it won't reduce staffing be very leary of this."
Geethat is the fire trucks fault. What about all the career FD's that have not lowered their staffing using quints? What about the places actually increased the staffing?
" They maybe looking for a reason to cut staffing and may say a "multi tool" will do more with less.
The only order tillers that will screw up the staffing cuts.
"The quints can do a lot if properly staffed but they are more of a hassle in my opinion."
Probably too hard to call it a ladder one fire and an engine the next? Paid and voluteers can't do one thing at a time and remember two sets of rules, just not bright enough probably? Does St Louis try to do two things simultaneously or Richmond, or Syracuse, or Dade County, or Ft Worth? NO! Sounds like a non-existant argument.
" I would rather have a truck and an engine with 3 and 2 staffing than a Qint with 4"
I don't recall anyone suggesting that. How about two quints with 4? Or equal staffing to yor example, which one kicks tail, is more flexible, allows the officer and crew to do what is needed? Yeah the quint wins. Which one would you like to be first in on? Which one would you offer the most to the citizen? Why are they the seopnd most purchased piece, in both paid and volunteer departments? maybe some firefighters are smart enough to deploy them properly.
04-30-2002, 10:28 AM #5
We run a 55' E-One Telesquirt as our first due engine. You're right, it's not an aerial, it's not an engine. But it sure does give you lots of options. Amazingly enough, we can figure out when we need to do "truck" work and we can also figure out when we need to do "engine" work. A long time ago, it used to be called firefighting.
04-30-2002, 03:36 PM #6
Okay I am game let's discuss my post.
I didn't make myself clear and I am sorry. I guess it comes down to staffing I don't consider a "truck" with a pump to be a quint, to me a quint is a unit that is doing both engine and truck work wth the staffing of a engine or a truck.
I belive all "trucks" straight ladder, snorkel and platform should have pumps and a prepiped waterway.
You are correct that a quint does offer much more ability than a lone truck.
I am sorry i do belive that a "quint" can replace a truck of equal length however many departments are trying to conslidate a 100' truck and an engine in one piece and are cutting the length of the ladder and the size of the tank to to make it the general size of an engine.
Yes you are correct that quints are replacing engines all over.
Again it comes back to the deffinition of a quint, as i said above many departments replace their 100' trucks with quints of 65-75 feet. The advantages of that 25-35 feet is obvious.
I am sure your 95 foot quints will carry everything you need however is that unit going to be 31 to 33 feet long and be as mobile as an engine.
That is wonderful that you can have 1000 gallons and a 95 foot tower, however will that unit be as nimble as a custom pumper, even with "Quadrasteer" it just wont fit the places a custom pumper will.
I know that some manufacturers allow clear hose loading but not all of them do .
I didn't say that the manpower problems were going to be the units fault but it is a con to consider, not every locality is growing and willing to add personell.
I will edit more later.Fyrtrks
04-30-2002, 06:11 PM #7
- Join Date
- Jan 2001
- Gray, ME, USA
I have read many previous posts on this subject and it seems that they constantly come down to the
same arguments about quints not being suited for use as an engine or as a ladder. I think that you need to realize that a quint is not exclusively a ladder or an engine but can be capable of filling either role under certain circumstances.
In general in most areas they do not respond just one apparatus on any call. Even in rural locations most departments will try to crew and respond with at least one engine and one aerial apparatus, on most structure fire calls.
If the quint is the first on scene it can be used
to establish a water supply, begin an attack or conduct ventilation, search & rescue or forcible entry tasks. When the engine arrives the crew can take over the attack, suplement or provide water supply and assist with other tasks. If the engine arrives first they would conduct engine operations and thus allow the quint to be set up and used in a ladder capacity.
Every piece of aparatus is basically a compromise when it comes to deciding what equipment it will carry and what it's capabilities will be. (eg. tank size, pumping capacity, ladder compliment etc. So there is probably not one "ideal" apparatus.We need to learn to work with the capabilities that each apparatus provides and concentrate on saving lives and protecting property.
05-01-2002, 09:48 AM #8
- Join Date
- May 2000
- DFW area of Texas
I have read many previous posts on this subject and it seems that they constantly come down to the same arguments about quints not being suited for use as an engine or as a ladder. I think that you need to realize that a quint is not exclusively a ladder or an engine but can be capable of filling either role under certain circumstances.
The problem with quints isn't with the quint, it's with the training, leadership and discipline of the personnel working on the quint.It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!
05-06-2002, 08:47 PM #9
Say Mongo,Ya think Larry's back?6 posts and loves quints?2000 gal. and a stick?Won't fit down half the roads in my districts. T.C.
05-09-2002, 12:36 AM #10
- Join Date
- Jul 1999
- Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
FDQUINT...to try and compare St Louis or Ricmond or even Syracuse with a department looking at there first ladder and trying to determine if it should be a stick or a quint is not comparing apple to apples.
St Louis everything is a quint and there are specific guidelinea as to which rig is an engine and which is a ladder by incident priority. Richmond as I recall got a real "glowing" report of how ell the quints are working in Fire Engineering by one of their own captains. As I recall they were too big, terrible access, too little water and so on. So if that is a win for quints tell me where they are going wrong?
My career Fd has a quint. We are looking at a second. Unfortunately many chiefs and city administrators look at them as staffing cutting tools. Not multi-purpose fire vehicles when adequately staffed. Of course they can be a ladder and an engine. But not at the same time when staffed with 3 or 4 firefighters.
I think quints work in a few selective scenarios 1) when adequately staffed 4-6 firefighters (with 4 it is a single function unit, with 6 it may be able to do both engine and ladder work) 2) If utilized in a well thought out total quint concept department (everything is a quint with the exception of perhaps a few RIV) 3) First aerial device for a combination or volunteer department where personnel numbers may be sporadic at times during the day
Again mereely my opinion. Take it or leave it.. Have anice day.
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