I can't begin to approach this post with a catchy title...

[StayBack500FT]

For the love of God people...Be responsible!!!

Take all the "Jetresponder 2000 wig-wag, strobe, LED wonderlights" off your vehicles and smash them on the road if you can't drive responsibly! THERE IS NOTHING that you are responding to that is worth taking a life to get to (whether it is your's or my family's). This subject causes my hair to stand up! I mean we spend countless hours training you to be safe, thousands of dollars outfitting you and the thing that should be the easiest to protect you against kills you (or someone else). What a waste.

[Steamer]

With no intent to reflect on the recent tragedy in PA, but only to comment on the general topic as posted by StayBack500FT, must of us are sworn to protect our citizens. We do nothing but endanger them when we drive unsafely, and that includes POV's and emergency vehicles. You aren't going to do anyone any good if you can't get there to render aid.

Protect the innocent, but protect yourself. Drive safely.

[38R1-theprobe]

I am a strong supporter for lights and sirens, and for driving safely. I understand why it is necessary to have L&S but do not understand why red, blue, or whatever makes your foot heavy and your common sence disapear. I am not refering to the PA accident because i dont know what happened. I feel that with lights you should only be allowed to go 5 miles over the speed limit and have either training or some way to prove you can act responcible w/lights and sirens. but thats only my opinion so take however you want to.

[captstanm1]

I could not say it much better than the first 3 posts....so DITTO!

Learn from others experience!

[martinm]

This is why my service will not allow us to use warning lights on our private vehicles. We are here to protect & preserve life & property, not add to the statistics.

My heartfelt condolences go out to the familes of those involved in this incident as there will be no good outcome on either side.

[fflynn17]

I printed the article from FH and posted it in my firehouse. I recently took a younger member to task due to his driving like a maniac and I am taking a lot of heat from his family. In my opinion, hate me if you must, but it is his life (and probably the life of an innocent civilian) that I am trying to save.

[PuffyNPFD]

YUP! Gotta agree!!!!

[oldE6man]

If people realized the potential liability to which they expose themselves when they drive their POVs with lights and/or siren, I bet most of them would take 'em off.

[Steamer]

Let me preface my response with this fact. I still have no details on the incident in PA, and I in no way intend for what follows reflects on that situation. I write only on the general topic as posted. With that done...

oldE6man

You're probably right, but I think you would agree that the unsafe driving isn't a direct result of the lights and siren. It's well within the abilities and even the responsibilities of the drivers as operators of emergency equipment (including their POV's) to operate that equipment in a safe manner. Beyond the exposure to liability, they can do no one any good, and in fact make the situation they were called for, exponentially worse if they are involved in an accident.

A combination of maturity and training tempered with experience, is necessary. There are some people that just shouldn't drive any vehicle when they are responding on a call. I've seen people drive like bats out of hell, even without lights and sirens. It's the adrenalin induced cranio-rectal inversion that's the problem.

I don't know what the answer is. I wish I did. I wish anyone did.

[JTL]

My heartfelt sympathy to the victims in Pennsylvania.

I agree with Steamer on this point especially:

There are some people that just shouldn't drive any vehicle when they are responding on a call. I've seen people drive like bats out of hell, even without lights and sirens. It's the adrenalin induced cranio-rectal inversion that's the problem.

Here in South Carolina where we thank god for Mississippi, we have a number of genetically altered mutant creatures with a severe case of "Ohmygoditsacallsoimustdrivemyf 150veryfasteventhoughthecallis 144milesaway" As you can imagine it is a serious issue. Wig wags on the Chevette with the 4500 pound lightbar....Ugh!

[FireExplorer13]

in resonse to what 38R1 said, maybe states should require a certain amount of driving experience under a regular liscense and then require you to take a test to get a special liscense to have lights and sirens on your POV.

[38R1-theprobe]

I think that to have lights although i think it would be a pain you should probably be a driver, and should have your CDL. Although its not required currently to drive a fire truck I think it should be. I also think that when grampa and grandma go on their cross country trip in the winnebago that they need to have a CDL or special training on driving that monster down the road at 20mph into on coming traffic, but thats my opinion.

[ChiefReason]

First offense for driving like a maniac to an incident; suspended for 30 days-not permitted to respond to an incident.
Second offense for not learning from the first offense; terminated with extreme prejudice!
Think that you are entitled to a third chance to kill someone, including yourself? You do? Now I know I made the right choice!
Speed kills.

[fflynn17]

Originally posted by FireExplorer13:

in resonse to what 38R1 said, maybe states should require a certain amount of driving experience under a regular liscense and then require you to take a test to get a special liscense to have lights and sirens on your POV.

Unfortunately I have seen guys over 40 still doing this, then teaching their families by example to do the same. It is not the experience the person has, it is the intelligence capacity of the person to think the issue through and then act accordingly.

Originally posted by Chief Reason:

First offense for driving like a maniac to an incident; suspended for 30 days-not permitted to respond to an incident.
Second offense for not learning from the first offense; terminated with extreme prejudice!
Think that you are entitled to a third chance to kill someone, including yourself? You do? Now I know I made the right choice!
Speed kills.

I think that this should be part of the SOP's for every department!!

[MalahatTwo7]

The general consensus here is due care and attention while respondig to an incident either by PMV or while on duty in the apparatus.

For some background on the original post, I read through the news article and that raised a question or two.

Firstly there was a comment about it "being possible that the responding car (may have flashed blue lights when entering the intersetion)". I wondered about this for a while. There is no mention of what position (or job) the driver held within her department. By this I mean that, while I know that regs change by city, county, province and state, but I thought that only officers ie deputy chief and higher were the only ones who were authorized to mount lights and sirens in private vehicles.

Secondly, probably one of the first real questions I ever asked when I first joined was in regards to emergency response in private vehicles, and what the protocols were for that. The answer was yes, we can, but ALL TRAFFIC LAWS AND REGULATIONS HAVE TO BE OBEYED. That was defined as: driving in the proper lanes, at proper posted speeds and obeying any other traffic indicators like intersection lights etc. The only differnence that was made is in the use of 4-way flashers. Of course in dense traffic they will get you no-where, but in light traffic, use of the 4-ways, hi-low beam headlight flashes (daytime use so as not to blind the oncoming drivers at night) and maybe the horn {not that even a quad mounted air horn in fire apparatus that makes it sound like a freight train does much better at an intersection}.

Having said all that above, DON'T BECOME THE NATURE OF YOUR NEXT CALL!

Speed kills at any time, and it is up to us as the responder to take all necessary care and attention, and then add 100% on top of that.

[Adze39]

drkblram: That is not true. Blue lights have nothing to do with certification. Maybe your department has that policy, but that is not what is in the State statutes.

[StayBack500FT]

Wow, after being away for a couple days, I can see how my original post may have come off a little harsh. If I have offended anyone directly involved with the PA incident, I do apologize. I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve and react with my exact thoughts at the moment. First and formost I am sorry for your loss, that may not have been reflected earlier. I treat you folks just as I would my brothers and sisters at my home station, they know me pretty well and realize my intentions are good.

[prometheusd]

I would love after my first year is up to get lights on my truck. Not because I want to fly through intersections doing 65, but because I am proud of what I am doing and want people to know I'm a FF. I am totally cool with just putting a nice plate up front and maybe a sticker on the back. Once I get subbed on as a vollie when I'm off duty at the full time dept there might be a reason to have lights, but I figure if I can't get there without lights I sure can't get there with lights. Not to mention my car insurance is more since it is also a business vehical
vrooom.....
vrooommmmm.....

PD

[Temptaker]

Here NONE of our emergency vehicles, police, ambulance or fire, can blow through a red light period. It doesn't matter if your lights and sirens are on or not. If an emergency vehicle is in an accident here it is automatically deemed the fault of the emergency vehicle. Code 3 or not you HAVE to come to at least a rolling stop at red lights.

Most of the paid depts here require you to have a class 3 with air brakes (we have several commercial DL, amb is class 4), before you even apply to the dept. You aren't allowed to drive for YEARS. The earliest I have ever heard of in Vancouver is 6 years on the job. Before you can drive you have to take emergency driving class, some stations will let you drive if it is general response before emergency driving class is done.

I fairly certain that if they require this for regular emergency vehicles they would require the same thing for PMV.

[sfdlt5]

I dont understand what the problem with haveing thlights is. I do know that when a vehicle has lights flashing on it, it appears to be going faster to the human eye. I also know that when we are responding to an emergency in my department if you do not have a light be it blue for the regular firefighters and red for the chiefs, you are not covered under the department insurance. So say what you want about the lights, the priority is getting to the emergency and doing what you are trained to do.