Thread: Fire tactics

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    Default Fire tactics

    tones drop for commercial fire..downtown business district. area is mostly heavy timber construction 75-100 yr. old. weather is rainy w/ 10 to 15 mph winds. time is 09:30, first due reports heavy smoke showing out 3rd story windows of row of 3 adjoining buildings. Vol. depts responding with all available f.f.s. area has limited water supply, hydrants are on 4-6 in. mains w/ 2-2 1/2 outlets only.

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    Is it 9:30 AM or 9:30 PM. What is the building occupancy what kind of business. Is it a wharehouse? If the 3rd floor fire coming from the main building or from 3 adjoinging buildings off the main building? Ive been scuba diving all day so im a lil dull right now, id be able to make a better decision if i can get these questions answered, also what are the exposures?

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    seeing how there is no confirmed fire, have your pumpers hook up to the hydrants, have an aerial go towards the window to check for fire and extinguish . If there is a fire reported then call out for tankers. have one line sprying the oringnal spot and one line preserveing the other structures.
    Jeff Gurski

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    Default Thoughts

    From your text here are some assumptions:
    1.) 09:30 means 9:30 am, but the day of the week unknown.
    2.) Heavy Smoke on 3rd floor from row of 3 buildings indicates possible involvement of multiple buildings.
    3.) limited water supply.
    4.)Building purpose? I don't know (ie office, factory, warehouse?)
    5.)Surounding structures?

    My sog's priorities are Resuce, exposures, containment ....
    Size up starts when the tones drop, so I leave this unsaid.
    I'm on a dept with limited water.
    Go ahead get tankers on their way. The same for ladders, you have 3 possible buildings which translates to possibly alot of people.
    Any resuce needed?? Utilize latters and from ground floors. Really can't into detail with out more info.
    If you find you have a working structure fire I would use the hydrants for engines detailed to exposures, that size main is not going to putout a large structure fire.
    Assign somebody with a level head to develop a shuttle site, and possible drafting? The worst thing that can happen is if you don't take time to setup your scene as equipment arrives, having a cluster of equipment scattered can kill everything else. This should have been done mostly in preplanning.
    In short, Call out the army, and preplan so you are prepared. Even if you preplan water supply, it will put you in fight. People don't plan to fail, they fail to plan.

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    We don't have big water mains so I would ask incoming co's to locate and tag hydrants on there way in. Start tankers on the way if they are available. Send a crew or two to the fire floor with BIG (2 1/2") lines
    and try to knock down as much fire as possible. Have trucks open up the exterior, try to ascertain the occupancy; residential, commercial,
    manufacturing or storage etc. Depending on previous occupancies, the time to perform may be limited. (oil or chemical soaked floors which will contribute to RAPID fire spread.) Winds are a factor so the ventilation has to be coordinated as to not endanger the interior ops.
    I would send crews to the 1st and 2nd floors to perform search and notification of any occupants. Also tone out for the world due to the limited manpower factor. Better to have em' coming and send them back
    than have an oh $#i! situation. Depending on the headway the fire has made, this is a huge factor as to the outcome of this incident. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst! Just my 2 cents.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
    Chief 1899-1911
    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

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    I'll try to clarify this a little.
    [1] day of week is tuesday.
    [2]fire is in center building which houses office supply/printing operationon ground floor,with storage on 2nd floor,3rd floor is vacant. side 2 exposure is clothing store on ground floor w/ storage on 2nd and 3rd floors. side four exposure is hardware store utilizing all three floorsw/ basement.
    [3] nearest aerial is 12 miles away 2nd nearest is 20 miles away.
    {4} side 1 street is one way, N/S divided by rail road tracks running thruogh middle of town.

    this is a very possible scenario as we are second due in the district this is based on.

    all reply's are greatly appreciated .

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    Priorities: Life Hazard, both to public AND ff’s, then exposures, then containment.

    According to smokediver’s last post, it is a confirmed fire. Get both aerials on the road, along with tankers. I don’t know what apparatus he has in his dept., so I will use my pumpers. My dept. has 3 1,000 gal pumpers, one 500 gal engine, and one 300 gal. rescue engine, BUT at 9:30 AM on a Tuesday, we will probably get out 2 1000 gal with driver, officer and 3 FF’s, and the 300 gal. rescue engine with same staffing, so I would call for mutual aid for a RIT team, and another engine with manpower to the scene, and another engine and manpower to stage at our dept. to cover, and to be ready to come to the scene if needed.

    Concerns: Fire Building: Office Supply/Printing, high combustible load AND high Haz-Mat problem (inks, toners, etc). Exposure 2: Clothing store: Stores in my area do not open until 10 AM, so should be only employees in building, not public. High combustible load, low Haz-Mat problem. Exposure 4 BOTH high combustible load AND Higher Haz-Mat problem.

    1st and 2nd arriving engines hit hydrants with hydrant assist valves and lay to scene.
    1 crew (2-FF) to Exposure 4 with can, hooks, radio to search and evacuate
    1 crew (1-FF, officer) with line to fire building, assignment 3rd floor search and locate, begin containment/extinguishment.
    1 crew (1-FF, officer) 2nd line to fire building, assignment 1st and 2nd floor.
    1 crew (2-FF) ladder fire building, horizontal ventilation as called for by interior team.
    Rescue/engine hook to 1st engine’s hydrant assist to up water pressure, 1 crew to form RIT until mutual aid co. gets here, 2nd crew to exposure 2 with can hooks, radio to search and evacuate.

    In my area, the mutual aid co’s are not far away, and when they hear we have a possible structure, their available manpower is on the way to their firehouse because they know they are going to work.
    1st M/A engine crew to scene, pull 2nd line off 1st engine, stand by as RIT, original RIT assignment to roof for vertical ventilation of fire building. 2nd M/A engine crew to standby to relieve search/containment crews as needed. Both M/A engines form shuttle to nearest water supply that is NOT on same main water grid.

    Aerials set up to fire building as soon as they arrive, one in front, one in back.

    This is how I would set up. I am new at working on these scenarios, so constructive criticism is VERY welcome!!
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

    Dusty, working on Crusty IACOJ

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    Ok, fire on third floor (which is vacant). Get a crew to roof via any of the three buildings, do so, and get a hole cut above fire. Send crews to third floor of clothing store and hardware store. Protect and prevent fire from spreading laterally. Call for the first aerial, should not need the second, but if things are not working, send them. Fire on third floor is going up and out the roof. Let it/help it out the roof. Of course, this is assuming the 3rd floor is the top floor. If not, oh well, through my plan away as it won't work.

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    Default Give me Water Everytime.

    Just to confuse me I am going to put this in Metric but you will get the idea.

    A training exercise goes like this.

    Truck with 2,000 litres of water pulls up, two teams in B/A advance two deliveries made up of 5 lengths of 70 millimetre (2 1/2 inch) x 30 metre (lots of inches) long line. And then spray water at targets.

    Really funny thing was where did all the water go. "We should have been able to put water down for longer than that", said the boss.

    No we replied it works like this.

    1 x 30 metre length of 70 mm line will hold almost 100 litres of water, 10 lengths x 100 litres = 1,000 litres.

    At 15 litre per second coming out of the branch and two branches we get

    15 litres x 60 seconds = 900 litres

    900 litres x 2 = 1800 litres

    And you wonder why our tank was empty after 35 seconds of water on the fire

    So half our tank was knackered getting the hoses full Boss. the other half went on the fire boss, then the truck had no water boss, because it was in the lines boss, with no pressure because the pump had nothing to pump boss.

    And it got really hot really fast at the fire boss.


    All those other people standing round probably should have been securing a primary supply, getting the pumps going, and then ensuring a secondary supply if the first was going to run out.

    So please give me WATER first.

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