How many of you all out there get so ****ed off at the company that you all belong in at something stupid that happens to you. That you say the hell with it I don't need it, but as soon as that pager goes off at 3 AM you all are still there doing what we all live to do ? I find myself doing this. I was just wondering if it happens to everybody?
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Thread: ****ed off but still Respond
05-13-2002, 08:56 PM #1
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
****ed off but still RespondFire Fighter Justin Koshar
05-13-2002, 11:32 PM #2
Let me guess? Your still a volunteer
I think the guys name was Andronicus and the year 300 - 400 B.C.
Talking of his time in the Roman Legions.
"Just when we became an effective fighing force, we would be reorganized by the officers. Requiring us to start training again."
Same S@#T, different era.
Or is that Error?
things change, it will always happen.
Stay Low Stay Cool.
05-14-2002, 08:22 AM #3
- Join Date
- Sep 2001
- No. Providence R.I. : Land of the "How ya doins"
The love and desire to do the job prevails above all. This is why
you keep getting up and responding, not for the others but for your own reasons."I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."
Edward F. Croker
Fire Dept. City of New York
HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.
05-14-2002, 08:52 AM #4
- Join Date
- May 2002
- Wonthaggi, Victoria, Australia
not to be stereotypical, but the more seasoned members generally keep getting up because they see it as their role in life and are committed to the community service regardless of their company; and the younger/newer members often see it as a gamble - they never know what they're going to expect, and so they'll get up to find out (and hopefully help out when the truck gets on scene)!
there will ALWAYS be variations on the above (the occasional pyromaniac fits in here), however that's just how i've interpreted it where i live.
keep your chin up mate
Wonthaggi Urban Fire Brigade
05-18-2002, 11:25 AM #5
This usually happens at my station every 3 months or so. It will be a combination of lack of calls, or too many calls (is there such a thing?). Or maybe a personality clash, (usually affects the drivers more than anything, wonder why?). Ends up with someone anouncing how p****d off they are and why the bother turning in etc etc.
Then after a while, another call comes in and everyone comes back and the whole process starts again.
Moths to a flame??!!United Kingdom branch, IACOJ.
05-18-2002, 11:55 AM #6
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
- Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
Some of our guys are running into that now, I think. I have experienced it to some degree as well. From my end, I find that as a volunteer, there are those of us who work really hard all the time, some who work hard most of the time and then those who ride on the tailboard of the efforts of the first two.
Yes we are volunteers and yes we all have a life outside the fire service, but because we are "part-timers" there is still work and maintenance that needs doing, and well, someone's gotta do it, right. Often it seems it will be the same 3 or 4 people who show up for weekend duty crew, and other irregular events like that. And those same 3 or 4 are the ones who are driving themselves to the end, trying to get the background, silly crap done for the next practice night, or making arrangements for contractor work, vehicle maintenance and other stuff like that. For many of us, I think this is the root of most personality conflicts in the unit as well. It also causes a lot of stress for those with families too. And for the single guys, this can make for an "Interupted social life" too. The spouses get angry because you run off with the tone out, or you are out because "someone's" gotta get the truck to the shop, or go pick up parts or equipment in town.
But at 3am when the pager beeps off, yep, there I am: running for the door, not even really awake yet - nothing like a good 100 yard dash down the road to the hall to wake me up and clear the head of some of the excess adrenaline to start a day off.
Kiwi, how true: "Just when we became an effective fighing force, we would be reorganized by the officers. Requiring us to start training again."
That applies so truely to my "day" job in the military!If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)
"I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD
"Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)
Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!
impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto
IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.
05-19-2002, 10:57 AM #7
Malahat, your place could be my place!!
There are always the same 4/5 people who will do anything at anytime. There are others who will "hangback" and see if anyone else volunteers first, then grudgingly sometimes, say they will do somthing. You get this is all walks of life and not just the fire service. Some people are more adept at doing more than others. My family accept that I do this for others, therefore if I suddenly get up and run, do'nt expect me to say goodbye. (my mother still has'nt got used to it by the way). Other people on my crew take a more "will I won't I" approach. Theres nothing that can be done about it, but it does get to you occaisoanlly. We have that sort of thing going on right here right now. The crew room needs repainting, its only a small room. Its not like we, (me & the other two officers), are asking for the appliance room to be painted... and still people are moaning about why we can't just pay someone to do it. Others will just say give me a bush & tell me where to start. I still can't figure out why some of my crew think that being part-time stops after you go home from a call.United Kingdom branch, IACOJ.
05-19-2002, 04:04 PM #8
Mutter Mutter Mutter
Hi just back from 4 days holiday.
And why is it that the guys that do the least, (including at the fire ground). Always seem to be honking the loudest at the station?
Also, how come they end up first in line when the beer call goes up?
Usually they are last to the incident and end up doing crowd control, traffic duty, etc?
They are also usually first back to the station?
And they are the first to tell the whole godaqmn neighbourhood about the big incident that apparently they were the key person at?
These questions and Einstiens Theory of Relativity must be linked somehow?
How about "The amount of work not done * the amount of time not spent on a job = the inverse amount of BS coming out."
That should do it.
Stay Low Stay Cool.
06-05-2002, 01:13 AM #9
been there man. chief got ****y with me on a call, and i lost my cool when we got back to the house. i left quick well i stoped back by about 2 hours latter and was cooling off when the chief stoped by and pulld me aside and started reaming me again. i had it was litterally handing him my pager when we got toned out for a barn fire. grabed my bunkers and took off. came back from that one and he was patting me on the back?!?!?!?! i reacted without hesatation when tones droped, on instinct it seemed. and the only cheezy line i can think of is
"Funny thing about Firemen, night or day they are STILL FIREMEN!!!!"
roll safe, see you on the "big one"
jasThe words on my post are my thoughts, my thoughts have nothing to do with the department in which I volunteer, and other organizations I work
i do it all for the money, yup i make the big bucks!!!!
cobb island VOLUNTEER fire department and ems CO 6
whidbey island VOLUNTEER fire department and ems station 25
06-19-2002, 08:43 PM #10
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Northeast Georgia
Just remember that you are there to serve the community and protect your family and usually things fall in to place from there. Politics will be politics it will always be there, it comes with the job, how you react to the politics and the bickering is another thing. Just keep smiling and try to look for the best in all. Also remember that you cant change anyone but yourself, keep in mind this thought "If everyone acted in the same manner I do, what kind of dept would we have?" That usually stops me in my tracks when I am having a whiney day of my own.Excellence is a habit, not an act! - Aristotle
06-30-2002, 05:42 PM #11
- Join Date
- Jan 2001
- Auckland NZ
Kiwi the quote you are referring to is such a classic it bears repeating in its original form. Here it is:
“ We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganised. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganising, and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency and demoralisation.”
Caius Petronius, AD66
It is good that people are beginning to recognise this constant "Restructuring is the answer" bulldust for what it is!
I think the major reason that peoople continue to respond, despite the ignorant or arrogant positions taken by those in superior positions is the realisation that they may have the rank (temporarily) to tell them what to do, but they do not necessarily truly represent the people who may need out help. Ultimately it is those people (the public) we serve.Jim Maclean. IACOJ NZ branch
07-01-2002, 11:41 PM #12
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
Been there, down that, probably will do it again.
If you do this long enough it will happen again also. No
matter how bad it gets, when the time comes you will make
the call. If you don't then you need to look at your
level of committment again. Sometimes we all need a break.
I have always said if you don't like the way the place is being
run, throw your name in the hat and give it a try. Gives you
a whole new perspective.
Stay Safe and remember, if we don't make the call who will.......
07-05-2002, 08:32 AM #13
We all get ticked off.....
But ignoring calls is only hurting the people you have vowed to protect and serve. And look at it this way.
One night at 3AM your pager activates and you say..."The H**L with it, I am not going!" So you stay home and find out the next day that someone lost their life. Perhaps even a firefighter. Wouldn't you wonder if you had gone would things have been different?
If we are to be members of volunteer organizations we need to realize that there will be differences in opinions (# of members = # of opinions). We have to agree to disagree and get along an move on or the organization will collapse. Then who loses?09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
"Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.
07-05-2002, 10:49 PM #14
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
What happens if somebody gave a fire, but NOBODY came to it?
Look at the bright side, you are still helping the community where you live, right? If helping your neighbors is not the reason you got into this service, you might think about doing something else!
Take care of your brothers & sisters, as they are the ones who will save you when your stuff is on the line.
07-06-2002, 01:38 PM #15
- Join Date
- Feb 2002
- Westerly, R.I.
Just my two cents worth
I believe I've heard Kiwi's reference reworded with a slightly more modern twist, but the same old meaning as "Just when I learn to play the game, they change the rules!"
The politics often get very deep, but I have never found them to get deeper than the desire to continue to do what we do. As far as being overcome with the feeling that I should chuck it all... yeah, there have been times, but over the years (and there have been lots of them)I find that I view things differently now. I have come to terms with the fact that sometimes the election process does not necessarily make the best choice for the department, but if I quit, it only means that they have won.
I'm not that easy. I've decided that I won't quit...I won't quietly go away. If there is an incompetant that needs taming, then I am the man to be the thorn in his side that will keep him honest and acting in the best interest of the department and public, because that is my purpose. On the other hand, if there are competant personnel at the helm, then I'll grab an oar and pull with them.
I've used these same arguments to talk other members who were on the brink of swearing off, but were truly concerned for the good and welfare of all to instead stay on and fight the good fight. Don't let the turkeys get you down. If they are, indeed, turkeys, eventually they will get plucked and stuffed and a good time will be had by all.
In my training sessions, though, I have always taught my charges that when the tones drop, you put your personal differences aside and partner with your fellow firefighters and watch their back like it is your own. That is not the appropriate time to propagate BS of any sort. Take care of the job at hand.Lead by example...
07-06-2002, 05:33 PM #16
- Join Date
- Dec 2000
- Long Island
Tell me about it.
I can relate completely. I was so ****ed off that I transfered out to a different company. Different officers/members, some of the same headaches. Bottom line it was a personality clash and after I left I noticed that a lot of other members of my former company were having similar problems with the same individual.
This is what I took away from it all - This is volunteer, I can choose to respond or not, I choose to because I want to help my community. As for the jerks, I choose not to socialize with them.
07-09-2002, 04:28 AM #17
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Przyszowice, POLAND, Europe
Thank you all for all those comments. I just think it will help me a lot. I've been a volunteer for 11 years and for he first 6 I think I was one of the guys to do anything at anytime. Than about 5 years ago a good relationship between the firefighter just started to sink. Don't remember how many times I was considering leaving this job for all. Right now I'm not doing much more than answering the calls (that's the only thing that keeps me there).
And my advice would be: "If things are going wrong and you're p***** **f, do the things that are important (answer the calls) and wait for better times to start working again".
07-10-2002, 12:56 AM #18
I am considering leaving my department. At least half of them do something on purpose to **** you off; and the other half treat everyone like shi*! Every new member that joins they make mad, or jump on them so much they quit before their first year, or never come back after the first day. Right now there's 5 members who are on the edge of quitting b/c certain officers treat the general membership(people whom respond to every call) like dirt and pay the most respect to those who rarely show, and wouldn't help unless their asses are kissed. I'd like to see them respond two ambulances at the same time if 5 EMT's or even 5 firefighters quit... Wouldn't happen. It's goddamn pathetic and Just plain wrong. I paid 1500 bucks for my bunker gear, and 700 for my own ems equipment; they never had to buy anything for me; and I get a hole torn in my boot at a fire, and they won't replace my boots. I work for 36 hours on the carnivals, Sat out side for 110 hours on selling raffel tickets, and have been injured many many times (Although I have never complained about the injuries b/c they harass you about being anything less than invincible). There is no such thing as a super human; and If I stand holding a 100 lb hose for 2 hours on a 90 degree day, or drag hundreds of pounds of frozen LDH on a Negative 10 degree day and I need a damn rest... Then I am clumsey, slow, Lazy, and an all around poor member. While they sit on their asses for six hours, or stand talking. I get up at 3am, sometimes be late for work, leave work, and loose countless hours of family holidays, dinners, and special times for ambulance calls, fires, vehicle accidents, flooded basements, trees down, and someone pulling a fire alarm... I have lost sleep b/c of things that I have seen that left an image in my mind not soon to be forgotten. I don't complain; I ask for nothing of them. But I am sick of being treated like crap all the time. Then they get ****ed when you don't go on a call.. B/c there is just some work that has to be done so you don't lose your job... and they have the nerve to get ****ed... I ask nothing of them anymore; I once asked to be trained on different apparatus, they don't have time. I have never even been properly trained on an SCBA b/c the Chief seem he just doesn't care. There is one person that I have to look up to; he taught me about the pumps, and showed me how to at least use an SCBA. He allows me to apply my knowledge in the ems field; while others don't allow me to do anything. I don't think he understands how much I appreciated him helping me learn how to apply my skills in emergency situations, and run pumps, different types of pumps, etc. He hasn't been coming lately, probably b/c they got to him like they do everyone else. I wish they could read this... B/c I'd like a few to know that I'm so tired of all the mistreatment and crap we put up with that since Monday of this week... I have been turning my pager off... I am starting to think that it's not worth it anymore. Everything that I've worked for, and trained for... was it worth it?
I used to be able to answer that question.... I can't anymore.
I don't want to quit.. I love to help my community; but I'm starting to think that they don't want my help anymore. I can't tell anyone in the company... What should I do?
Last edited by Oushore; 07-11-2002 at 06:53 PM.
07-10-2002, 04:01 PM #19
That was one of the saddest posts I have read for a long time, I hope you have the heart to keep doing the good fight for other people.
Maybe you need to have a quiet meeting with your friend and truly explain your feelings about what he has helped you with, then discuss how you can both do the work DEPSITE the attitude of others.
Maybe get together then with some of the other dedicated people and work with them to provide service to the public and support for each other.
I know that sounds like a Brigade within a Brigade scenario, but sometimes a collective move by people provides a momentum for others to change. It needs to be done calmly without developing a them and us attitude or giving them reason to pick you off one by one.
Was it worth it. YES, how many lives have you made a diffence to. By the sounds of it a lot, take pride in that brother and keep up the good fight.Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.
07-11-2002, 02:29 PM #20
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Long Island
We are all in the same union just a different local. What I say to myself and to the guys in my Dept. Is we must remember what brought us here in the first place. The desire to help our neighbors and save lives. If the department goes broke tomorrow we must still respond. If we dont agree with one another our neighbors dont care,all they know is when they call we better be there! They dont care about who ****ed us off or about who is getting away with murder because they are a favorite of an officer or a chief. Keep focused of why you do what you do. Plenty of times I have thought of packing it in. Then you think of the kid in the store that you dont know but he says "Hi Fireman------ do remember me" in that kids eyes you are the greatest thing. And he dont care about the things that **** you off, all he knows is if he needs you either you or one of you brothers will be there for him. Or think of the lives you may have already changed by being in the Fire Departmant. I think of the baby I delivered and the 3 lives I helped to save with CPR, any many other things that if we were not there the outcome would have been grave. So when you loose faith think of what brought you to the volunteer service in the first place, Take a day away spend it with your family then go do your calls and help your neighbors as you would want them to help you. I know it is easier said than done but I have been around the volunteer service my whole life and seen many good people leave for the wrong reasons.
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