1. #1
    phk
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    Default Searching in fires

    I would like to see how other departments teach FF's how to maintain contact with the wall or what ever else they use to find their way out of the building.
    FTM -PTB
    PHK

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    when we search we us the camera i try to stay on a wall but it is easy to get a false sense of security having the camera and being able to see but if something goes wrong with the camera and you ain't on a wall it could be trouble trying to find the way out but throughout all our traing it is drilled into us to stay on the wall and stay togather
    I PROVIDE A NAMELESS FACELESS SERVICE TO A COMMUNITY THAT RARELY KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY NEED ME IF I AM CALLED FROM A SOUND SLEEP TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE TRYING TO SAVE THE PROPERTY OR LIFE OF SOMEONE I DO NOT KNOW I WILL DO SO WITHOUT REGRET
    From the book "The Heart Behind The Hero" from Jon Mc Duffie in memory of Joe Dupee LAFD

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    It's funny you should mention that Dan.

    I was doing FFI Certifications today at the Montgomery County (PA) Fire Academy and during lunch one of my fellow evaluators, who was doing Search and Rescue, mentioned that he could tell how had TIG's and who didn't.

    Seems the ones with cameras tended to wander off the wall, which is a no-no during cert testing. Their explanation was the TIG and his explanation for failing them was the same as yours. "What if it fails?"

    We have always taught that one team member is to maintain contact with a wall. You can stretch the reach with a tool between team members. I really don't like the idea of the rope for the intial interior teams. We use a similar set-up for our RIT personel but first in's should always use the wall.

    BE SAFE!
    Last edited by dragonfyre; 05-18-2002 at 10:00 PM.
    Steve Dragon
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    Volunteers are never "off duty".
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  4. #4
    phk
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    Question Narrow information

    Well it's great to see some replys.
    I think I need to narrow down the subject some. I do a lot of instructing that deals with searching. One thing I see most of the time that scares me. As FF's we continue to let our hands jump on the wall from one spot to the next. This is a nation wide problem and not just in my area. Having worked at some of the larger conferences which have practical sessions. I have watched FF's enter a building from the front door only to be turned around with-in the first 6-8'. Why, well from what I see we tend to pat the wall and this will cause us to skip from one wall to another and not even know it. So sweeping the wall and floor might be better than patting. Let me know what you think and how your firefighters train.
    FTM -PTB
    PHK

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    Default Snap Rescue

    Contact with the wall, sweeping with the back of the hand. Sweeping with the other hand in front for cables etc.
    No 2 Hangs of the side of No 1's tank to extend the search area.

    When we use guidelines they attach to the No 1's BA set.

    There is a pouch with a 1 metre length of line that can be clipped to your partners BA set, or extended to full 5 metre length.

    Guidlines have a series of Knots every 5 metres. Reading 1 space and 3 close.

    You know how it works, There are 3 FF and 1 Officer. so on the way in you feel 1 Knot (officer) then 3 knots (firefighters), reverse that coming out.

    That prevents you going wrong way if there is a cross over on someone elses line.

    Just remember the rule "Officers. Last In, First Out.


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    i don't know how fond i am of having something tied to me hanging onto a seearch rope would be ok. we have traind in a oiented search it would work for smaller rooms but in large open spaces it probally wouldn't. when we train on search and rescue there are never ending way to conduct your search. but i would agree that at least one person in the team should be anchored to the wall
    I PROVIDE A NAMELESS FACELESS SERVICE TO A COMMUNITY THAT RARELY KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY NEED ME IF I AM CALLED FROM A SOUND SLEEP TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE TRYING TO SAVE THE PROPERTY OR LIFE OF SOMEONE I DO NOT KNOW I WILL DO SO WITHOUT REGRET
    From the book "The Heart Behind The Hero" from Jon Mc Duffie in memory of Joe Dupee LAFD

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    phk
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    Search lines have their place, I don't think small residential where you have a window with-in easy reach is the place. They are another tool and as long as you train with it it is great. We use it more for large commercials where the floor plan is spread out. Next time you conduct search drills with blacked out mask watch how many firefighters jump from one spot to the next on the wall. Keep in mind I don't want them to touch every square inch of the wall, they just need to make sure they are moving forward and not in a circle. Remember every and anything that is up aganist the wall becomes an extension of that wall.

    Besides if you get lost going in who's doing the rescue?
    FTM -PTB
    PHK

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    ive always been taught and try to have anyone i train to always , always have at least one point of contact with the wall, using right or left hand search patterns . second F.F. holds on to lead F.F pant leg to extend search area. my feelings are if you never lose contact with the wall and you know which search pattern you used you can always reverse your course.

  9. #9
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    Default Lectricity

    BACK OF THE HAND OR FOOT

    or whatever is in contact with the wall.

    Lectricity causes them muscles to contract. physics.

    Use the back of your hand.

    A sinple phrase. Volts Jolt.

    The voltage causes a muscular contraction pulling the muscles away, or towards.

    With the back of the hand it is away.

    Try it yourself if not conviced.

    Only once mind you....

    if you get it wrong.

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    Default

    When searching, keep your weight on your back foot at all times, feels a bit weird, but will (hopefully), stop you plunging through any holes in the floor that you will not be able to detect until its too late. As has happened to someone in my service recently. His advice after being hauled out was "don't let go of the hose..."
    United Kingdom branch, IACOJ.

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