1. #1
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    Question deck gun nozzles

    Just wondering how many depts utilize a smooth bore nozzle, as opposed to a fog nozzle on their deck guns, and the reasons for such, i.e. construction/layout in your area etc.. At my station there is a fog nozzle on the deck gun, and had an opportunity to use it the other night, but lacked reach of stream. Now we have a set of stacked tips on the truck......(locking the barn door not that the horse has been stolen...LOL)

    Any help is greatly appreciated.

    mark nowlan

  2. #2
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    mfgentili's Avatar
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    I have always been a fan of stacked solid tips on the deck gun, with the 2" being my nozzle of choice for maximum flow. Flowing at the recommended 80 psi nozzle pressure reportedly discharges 1,008 gpm from this solid tip. Keeping these tips on the deck gun has always been the policy on my engine company.

    Our newest engine has an Elkhart X-tream 1250 adjustable fog tip on the deck gun and I am quickly being won over by it.

    Elkhart claims it will discharge 1250 gpm @ 100 psi nozzle pressure. During a drill and using a flow meter I was able to determine a flow of 1195 gpm with 100 psi nozzle pressure and the tip set to straight stream (close enough for me). The stream was nice and tight and the reach comparable to the 2" solid tip. I have always said if I'm using a deck gun, it's because I need maximum water flow. With that in mind, the new nozzle seems to provide the needed flow along with the ability to adjust the pattern.

    I am not giving up on the solid tips and we still carry a stacked set on the engine just in case. One other positive thing about solid tips is no moving parts to screw up.

    Another neat new addition to our recent engines is an extending pipe that allows the deck gun to be raised an additional 18" above its pre-mounted position and still allows the deck gun to be removed and used with a portable base.

  3. #3
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    Our department has the smooth bore nozzles pre-attached
    to our wagon batteries ( deck gun )and also on our trucks
    ladder pipe. We also have adjustable spray nozzles for each.
    The smooth bore tip is good for penetration and distance, were
    as the spray tip works good for exposure protection. Both of
    these nozzles also are used on our portable monitors.

  4. #4
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    Thumbs up Smooth bore deck gun tips

    We use smooth bore stacked tips on our engine company deck guns.

    We also use smooth bore nozzles on our interior attack lines:
    15/16 inch tip on the 1 3/4 inch line.
    1 inch tip on the 2 inch line.
    1 1/8 inch tip on the 2 1/2 inch line.

    I hope this helps.
    Last edited by Fireman488; 05-23-2002 at 09:12 AM.

  5. #5
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    My department has both. The stacked tips are what are routinely installed on the deck gun. We believe that is what we need most frequently. When we need the "Fog Hog" it can be changed quickly. We like the versitility of having both.
    BB

  6. #6
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    We have stacked tips on the deck guns and also have fog nozzles in compartments that can be put on instead. In all honesty, in my 19 years, they have never come out of the compartment at a fire. We used them in drills, but never found a need for them. The stacked tips have always done what we needed. For attacking the fire, in defensive mode, the stacked tips gave better reach. For protecting exposures, the stacked tips have worked better for us as the fog pattern did not reach where we wanted unless we removed the gun from the truck and used it as a portable. We have also used the stack tips on the portable monitor to protect a 100' long building, just shot almost straight down the length of the wall. Try them both in different ways, see what works best for your area, use it.

  7. #7
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    All master streams are equipped with smooth-bore stack tips. In defensive operations you need maximum flow with reach and penetration. The department has on order two 2000 GPM pumpers that are going to be equipped with a Arkon 2000 GPM Stream Master monitor. These monitors will carry an Arkon 2 3/4" smooth-bore nozzle plus the regular stack tips.

  8. #8
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    We use stack tips on most of our engines at the present time. Our newest engine has a Vindicator Master Attack nozzle. In our testing we were able to flow over 1700-gpm from it. If were using deck guns it is for massive flow and the Vindicator provides that.

    P.P.

  9. #9
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    I have used Stack tips and Fog Nozzles on MS devices on the apparatus under actual fire conditions.

    The problem with using the SB tips is this. Most people carry then entire stack on the device and they charge it with that small tip on it limiting you to 600GPM. Very rarely does anyone shut down and change tips. If you are going to use SB take all the tips off except the largest. That gives you the bang you need to start off with. This is all dependant on available water supply and the plumbing to your prepiped deck gun. If it is not piped properly then you might as well leave the small tip on.

    Using a fog stream tip can be ineffective. But in today's modern technology TFT, Akron and Elkhart do make Fog tips that have excellent solid streams when in the SS position(yes...you can pitot them). Some are obviously better than others and you need to contact your sales rep to do side by side demonstrations. But in most cases they give you better hitting power in a SS position than the older ones and there is a much better/tighter pattern.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  10. #10
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    We have both...the fog nozzle is the one that remains attached
    but the gun doesnt get used much because everytime we do
    someone runs over and asks what the h we're doing
    because they're worried about losing too much water...so we have yet
    to get to use the gun on a live fire yet...too stuck in old traditions i guess

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    We have smooth bore on the deck gun for the reach and penetration issue. If you are using it, you need both. And smooth bore is the BEST
    for this. We too have smooth bore on our attack lines as well.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
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    Fire Dept. City of New York

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  12. #12
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    The deck gun on our main attack piece is a set of stacked tips. IIRC the top tip is 1-1/4", which is basically 600gpm @ 150psi. Works out well, the deck gun is fed right off the top of the pump, and you're not going to have a 40,000# truck the gun is mounted to break away from you even when running 150psi through it. The truck carries 1200 gallons, so it gives us 2 minutes when making a quick knock down.

    The portable master stream on both that piece and our other Engine-Tank are both 350-1000gpm fog nozzles. The portables are much more likely to be used -- we rarely have to spot the ET where the deck gun is useful unless we're purposely putting it that close to the building to make a deck-gun knock down. One of my fondest memories was making a terrific stop by getting a 350gpm stream from a portable monitor up under the eaves of the building -- the fire didn't get past that point!

    The Ladder Pipe is a 350-1000gpm fog nozzle with remote control.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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    We did some flow tests comparing a 2" tip to a Vindicator Master attack on our platform. Both nozzles were tested with a flow meter at the point where our 5" discharge line from the pumper supplying it reached the maximum operating pressure of 185 psi. The 2" tip gave us 1123 gpm with a great stream and the Vindicator gave us 1750 gpm also eith a great stream. The noticable difference between the two besdes the flow was the foot print. The 2" tip gave us about a 4' footprint while the Vindicator gave us roughly 10 to 12" footprint. Again both streams were great.

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    oops!!!!
    correction. The Vindicator flowed 1350 gpm not 1750. wishful thinking I guess. Sorry.

  15. #15
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    Wink

    A tanker fire 12 yrs ago led to our having the 350 GPM foam/fog nozzle on our deluge sets for the next 10 yrs. We now use the stacked tips, but really don't get much opportunity to use them. The stacked tip stream is easier to 'lob' water into dumpsters though.

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