Thread: Cannon Happy
05-25-2002, 02:03 AM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2001
Our Department has a problem with using the deck gun on everything.
Porch fire, grass fire, car fire, dumpster fire. Everyone says its more simpler then pulling off crosslays. I disagree, first i run the pumps and the deluge uses alot of water and 750 gallon tank is gone in 35-45 seconds. We never have enough water unless we hit a pluge. everyone says to flood the fire with water and it'll be out. What can I say to try to discourge them from doing this. Sooner or later we will get caught with out water and start to fail at saving stucture.
Thanks for any help.
Do note that our company has been using this ideal for the last 10yrs.
05-25-2002, 12:29 PM #2
Do you have anything that caught fire in your community still standing?
Pre-piped deck guns do have their place. You still have to pull a line to get at everything...deck guns do not bend!"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
05-25-2002, 08:48 PM #3
- Join Date
- May 1999
- Berks County, PA
Re: Cannon Happy
>> Our Department has a problem with using the deck gun on everything. Porch fire, grass fire, car fire, dumpster fire.
Ugh, Aargh, Yuck, Crap...I hate this (really bad) tactic almost more than any other. It's almost always totally ineffective, it's a waste of time and effort, and it's just plain wrong.
>> Everyone says its more simpler then pulling off crosslays.
Lazy, Lazy, Lazy, Lazy, Lazy, Lazy, Lazy, Lazy, Lazy, Lazy!!!
I hate this stupid, rotten, crummy, fat-*****ed, lazy excuse even more than I hate the tactic itself. If your people aren't willing to pull hose, do some work, get dirty and pack hose, then they belong back on their barstools and off the fireground. Period.
>> I disagree, first i run the pumps and the deluge uses alot of water and 750 gallon tank is gone in 35-45 seconds. We never have enough water unless we hit a pluge.
And you're right.
>> What can I say to try to discourge them from doing this. Sooner or later we will get caught with out water and start to fail at saving stucture.
There are a million good reasons not to do it this way, and most of them are well documented and included in training courses on structural firefighting and all sorts of others. Any of these people ever bother to take a class...of any kind?? Here's a thought...Ask them what tactics they'd want everyone else to use on their home if it was on fire. Better yet, ask them the same question, only add their own entrapment to the scenario. See how much they like their deck gun then.
I don't usually get too fired up over tactics, and I'm usually willing to listen to other peoples' ideas, but I really hate this one and the lazy, stupid excuse that always goes with it.
Last edited by bobsnyder; 05-25-2002 at 08:52 PM.
05-26-2002, 07:49 PM #4
- Join Date
- May 2001
- Nicholson GA.
other than it being a waste of water; what if you have victoms trapped inside of the structure!!!! i know of one instance locally where the fire dept pulled up on ground floor apt. fire and hit fire with deck gun with people still inside,luckily they did'nt kill anyone. definately a bad habit...have someone from your states fire academy come out and teach a basic fire attack class thewy can probably explain it much better than i can
05-27-2002, 07:38 AM #5
- Join Date
- Sep 2001
- No. Providence R.I. : Land of the "How ya doins"
Sounds like laziness to me. Not very sound tactics, endangers victims and also the likely possibility of pushing the fire throughout the structure. I will admit that packing crosslays are a bitch. In my dept, the only crosslay we have is 2 1/2" the rest of the handlines are off the back of the truck. Easier access to pack."I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."
Edward F. Croker
Fire Dept. City of New York
HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.
05-28-2002, 12:05 AM #6
- Join Date
- May 2002
At least the department's willing to use big water. Seems like most departments are just not willing to flow the deck gun, monitor, or large handline, even when needed.
If there's no life safety invloved (i.e.: rescue), big water can save the day and prevent useless firefigher injuries due to fire attack just for property conservation.
Here's two ideas that I advocate and employ when riding IC of the first due engine: use either a 2" line flowing 225-250 gpm or (my favored choice if the structure's beyond 50% and you can establish a good water supply) use a 3" line with a 1 3/8" smoothbore tip at 80 psi tip pressure - you'lll get 500 gpm that's controllable with 1 to 2 guys. As an example, I was abe to knockdown a 2 story wood barn fully involved and extinguish 3 involved exposures with <1200 gallons water... I think John Mittendorf's said it best, "saving the tank means losing the house". Your guys will get all the knockdown power of the deck gun that's moveable like a regular handline.
Last edited by robfire11; 05-28-2002 at 12:08 AM.
06-01-2002, 02:19 PM #7
Back away from the deck gun !
Thank the good lord you all don't have sticks! Is there any thing but foundations and concrete pads left? I guess you can make attack, hydraulic overhaul, and wash down all in one! Pull lines. Give your Chief a copy of Fire Streams & Hose Practices.celer et audax
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