1. #1
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    Default SORRY, I gotta say this...

    With all the Career/Volly banter that has gone on here over the years, I have only once or twice mentioned my volunteer roots. Here's the third time.

    In October of '76 I joined up with the vollies. On May 11, 2002 I resigned.

    I joined the ranks of a paid department in '83 and kept a low profile about my volunteer roots, as I was told to do. I was union proud but at the same time, not going to turn my back on those who showed me what the fire service was all about. Over 25 years later, I got the shaft and with it, a better view of the two seperate and distinct organizations.

    After 9-11-01, I realized I was not going to be able to meet my "obligations" in my local volly house. I submitted my resignation, explaining that I would not remain a member if I could not be active. I didn't want to be one of those "ghosts" on the roster that nobody ever sees. The Captain, at the time, and one of the Asst. Chiefs, contacted me to say they were not accepting my resignation. Due to the circumstances, I was to take "ALL THE TIME YOU NEED" and stay with the unit. To be honest, I was grateful and accepted their offer of a longer than permitted leave.

    Around Mid April I decided to get as active as possible again. Went down, made the meetings, made the calls when home...

    While attending the May meeting it was announced that myself and another brother, a Port Authority Cop, had been absent without leave from all duty since December of 2001. This was the decision of a few narrow minded dinosaurs who read the By-Laws verbatim and will not allow for any event or circumstance. And that ended a 25+ service, which I will say, I enjoyed.



    Sorry for dumping, I needed to get it off my back.

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    E ngine Lt.

    I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I think we have all known people like your talking about. If there is anything that we can do to help let us know.

    Good Luck

    P.P.

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    Artie... don't let those "bahstids" get you down. The way I see it...those narrow minded dinosaurs are probably insanely jealous of your work and rank in the FDNY...and if what happened on September 11th, 2001 had no effect on them then they are just a bunch of cold hearted MUTTS! It's their loss, not yours!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Default Move here

    E ngine Lt: From your posts, I gather you live on Long Island. I am hereby inviting you to move to Rockland County, just across the river from Westchester.

    If you want a busy volly dept, you'd have to live in a quasi-ghetto, but we get lots of work!

    "Dinosaurs" have their place, but we cannot allow them to run amok with no feeling for their brothers.
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

    Dusty, working on Crusty IACOJ

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    It's nice to know that your volunteer department has so many active people that they can afford to boot out two members (one with 25+ years of experience) on a technicality.

    Bylaws can be changes fairly easily, by the way.

    The commute is a killer (1265 miles if you're a bird), but you're welcome on my department anytime. We could care less if your a union fireman or not!
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

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    Damn shame! Obiviously, some of those dinosaurs have an agenda of their own.

    I know it's a little far away but I know we have an opening on our Dept.


    GOD Bless FDNY and All of the Lost Brother's and thier families.


    FTM, PTB, RFB

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    Default

    First Artie, take your "sorry" back.

    Shame of a story, that is. By my bio, you can see I'm a dinosaur too, but I like to think my mind is relatively open.

    The other thing about "retiring" from being operationally active in the vollie service, is that there is no fanfare. we were talking about this last night at the hose house. I know what it's like to simply walk into the sunset after 28 years of service, without anyone making a peep.

    Artie find a house that appreciates you.

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    Default plus........

    .... the fact that you did not name the organization, and resisted the urge to publicly smear them shows you're a better man.

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    My dept is full of dinosours who have tried to get met to leave, written up etc. because I can't make meetings when I'm on shift. I don't go to public functions because of the media. If someone at work saw my picture in the paper or on TV the union would not be too happy. I make as many calls as I can and attend as many drills as posible but they still try to bring me down. I know the By-Laws of my dept well and keep with in the alotted absences, but the frustration still builds. I've tried to change the way the elders do things, tried to bring them out of the dark ages but they can't see the light and this seems to be the reason why they are after me. The only thing that keeps me there is the look on the combat guys faces when I jump on the truck for a run. When they say "I'm glad you made it Lt" I seem to forget about the dinosours. I know one day the ice age will come and rescue my dept, I just hope it dosen't wait too long. I've seen guys like you chased out and it is always a loss.
    Sorry brother.
    Once upon a time, at a firehouse far, far away.....

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    Default A lost opportunity

    So rather than keeping your experience, not to mention having respect for the years you put in, the dinosaurs decided to ****can you......well remember what happened to the dinosaurs. They failed to adapt and now they are all extinct!

    Keep the faith Brother. Small minds have no room for thought.

    Dave

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    Default Re: SORRY, I gotta say this...

    Originally posted by E ngine Lt
    This was the decision of a few narrow minded dinosaurs who read the By-Laws verbatim and will not allow for any event or circumstance. And that ended a 25+ service, which I will say, I enjoyed.
    Your absence was caused by an Act of War,..nothing less. If they can't accept that...there is no hope for them.

    They've cut off their nose to spite their face. I admire your calm disposition, in spite of what happened. It says a lot about a man!
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
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    It's a shame when one or two bad apples spoil the whole department.

    There are several career guys on my VFD and we certainly need their experience and additional training. They make the whole department better! Hard to believe these guys think they can get by without that.

    If the Captain and Assistant Chief wouldn't accept your resignation, didn't they go to bat for you in this instance?

    All in all it's a crappy thing to do to someone with 25 years on. They'll figure out the error of their ways sooner or later.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

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    What a shame these short sighted dinosaurs did such a stupid thing. In my volunteer department, we have a couple of career guys who volunteer their time and expertise. Everyone I know is always happy to see them and welcome their input. One of our career guys volunteers as our training officer. We have practically rolled out the red carpet for him, and it continues to pay off for the department. He works on a very busy engine in the neighboring city and told us up front that between his career job and his part time medic job at a local plant he stays plenty busy. To make a long story short, the dept agreed that he need not make any call quota and only need to fill the duties as training officer which is what he was offering. He doesn't carry a pager and does not generally respond on any calls with us, unless he just happens to be at the station or on a drill when the tones drop. I appreciate and am glad to have someone of greater experience and knowledge to help with training and teaching.

    E ngine Lt, If these guys can't see that they need you more than you need them, they don't deserve to have someone like yourself around. I hope that you can find a place that will appreciate the knowledge and experience you have to offer.

    Stay safe Brother.

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    Default

    In my volly dept. we have 5 guys including me who are on paid jobs.
    Reactions range from good to ugly. Some of the officers resent us
    because we have more training or we have a job that they want. We don't walk around with our noses in the air or think that we are better than anyone else there, we just do our thing like we did
    before we got the jobs. The resentment or division, whatever you want to call it doesn't help situations, it only makes them worse. We are all firefighters, get over it! To Engine Lt.- Keep your head high! What happened on 9/11 needed you more than being at the volly house. It is selfish of the company to declare you AWOL, these were circumstances that were that were of the utmost importance. Stay Safe
    Brother!
    Last edited by PuffyNPFD; 05-26-2002 at 11:51 AM.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
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    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

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    Artie....I can say thanks for the dedicated service and the years you put in. We appreciate you! It is unfortunate that all departments (volly and career) have dinosaurs... There is a guy in my old department that has been there for 65 years...but...he is not even one of the dinosaurs...he may be a bit obstinate about things but he can be convinced of a need for change. To go along with the dinosaurs you have the other breed of animal "the 360 crew"...you know.... 3 years on and 60 years of experience...

    After 28 years of service in my volly department I also left under extenuating circumstances that don't deserve to be printed here. It was just a result of the dinosaurs and 360's getting together.

    After being out of it for 2 yrs I got back in a small volly department here in Fla. Immediately they wanted me to be an officer...I declined...(saying..I dont have time)..Finally after the administration changed 3 times in 8 months they asked me again to be a District Chief (equivalent to career Batt Chief in surrounding county dept). I was hesitant to accept but reluctantly did so saying my job keeps me busy and I often travel al over the state and out of town. Since accepting (2 months) I have religiously pulled 2 12-hour shifts a week and at least 2 24-hour weekend shifts per months. I was out of town last week 7 days on business. I pulled a shift before the day before I left and a shift the day after I returned and will pull 24 on memorial day. During my shift on Friday the A/C came to me and said, "You know...the Chief expects his D/Cs to pull 2 days a week and are the events of this week going to be a pattern?" I simply said..."Sorry...I will try and do better." (in my younger days I may have had an different one).... Yet, there is another D/C that I never see there...except for meetings. I have more experience and training (perhaps not formal college training) than the Chief or the A/C and they are the Kings of micro-management... Recently we (the D/Cs) were all given areas of responsibility that require paperwork and computer access to files etc... Well...last week while I was gone, the Chief decided to take away our office keys.... We have to gain access by seeing the A/C...but I understand we will get keys to the toilet paper, paper towells and trash bags..

    OK..I am done venting now too,,,

    God bless you Artie and all your fallen brothers..Thanks for your service.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  16. #16
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    Artie,my offer still stands!If you want to get outta the brick and into the trees,come visit.The commute is a pecker,however.If you leave now,you could be here for dinner.Take care of uself.T.C.

  17. #17
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    E ngine Lt

    I can't believe this actually happened. I'm really sorry that some arogant, self centered, self righteous, pompous piece of crap thought this was an acceptable outcome to your being gone. It is stunning to me that these people who work in a profession that requires compassion and humanity, couldn't seem to grasp the concept you might need some personal time after 9/11. What I find even more stunning is that the two officers who refused your resignation in the first place didn't do or say anything in your defense. You certainly shouldn't have to defend yourself or your need for time.

    Can someone please tell me what being AWOL has to do with a volunteer dept.? Volunteer means you come when you can. I can't believe they had the tenacity to use that.

    You need to talk to Firefighter 26 he has apparently been suspended.

    ... and they wonder WHY they have trouble finding people to volunteer....

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    Default No apologies necessary!

    E ngine Lt Ė Youíre a class act, no need to apologize, anytime youíre in the PG area you have a place to ride.

    Isnít it true about the older members of our departments? What is a shame is that when the time comes to replace these individuals no one will run against them. Some times because they donít want to hurt their feelings or half the department is family. This is just one of the many problems with the volunteer system and until the younger leadership and members get the fortitude to do what is right it will continue.

    I know it irks the hell out of me when important decisions on how the department is going to operate are being made by someone who comes to the station once a month for meeting night and basis their decisions on how things operated 50 years ago.

    Temptaker Ė Although at times I have been so frustrated with these individuals, I find myself describing them exactly as you have, but I still try to have and show respect for them.

    And although it is ďvolunteerĒ, just as you have mandatory training requirements you should expect to have mandatory participation requirements. You canít expect to have any type of cohesiveness and be able to keep up with the ever changing ways of the fire service if youíre not going to be there. Yes, as in E ngine Ltís case you are going to have exceptions but for your normal volunteer, if they canít accept the mandatory participation rules then they are probably just trying to get their jollies of riding on the big red fire truck and arenít really any asset to the department.

    Peace!

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    Angry

    Sorry to hear that there are people who like to play small town politics and/or are just plain stupid. If you are looking for a nice place, can I suggest small town Ohio. We have many depts that would be happy to have experienced help.
    Firefighter/NREMT-B/Hazmat Tech
    To the Lord Jesus Christ: Thanks for providing a career where we can make a difference.

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    Angry

    Artie,
    I am sorry to hear that some people in your former volunteer department were so short sighted, and unable to afford you and the PAPD officer an extended leave. Any time you want come on out to the Falls you have a spot on our engine. The you get a little of the city feel and more of the trees, unfortunately the commute is a bear. We would more than welcome your experience and rank.
    I hope they realize the error of their ways, and reconsider their decision.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Artie,

    That really is lousy. I thought most vollie depts had life members after 20 years, which made it almost impossible to get you out. Then the only way you could be thrown out was if you slayed a dinosaur.


    Stay safe all

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    absent without leave from all duty
    EngineLT - In your company (ex-company) what does awol mean? For my part, in my company, this would mean you would not get credit towards Life membership and with 25+ years, you would have been a Life member 10 years ago. If this means you are no longer allowed to answer calls, this is crazy. But if you are (were) still allowed to answer calls, do drills, etc. I would not have given them the satisfaction of your resignation. Let the dinosaurs play their games, the guys that matter are the ones who you are helping on the line, on the trucks, at the calls and drills. It sounds like a horrible situation but one in which they are the minority. Don't let them win. Keep doing it for the right reasons...

    Best of Luck to you.

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    Just shaking my head in disbelief. We told our FDNY firefighters to take as long as they need. There have been no repercussions.

    Oh, btw captstanm1, this cracked me up

    "To go along with the dinosaurs you have the other breed of animal "the 360 crew"...you know.... 3 years on and 60 years of experience.."

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    Originally posted by JAM1902Temptaker Ė Although at times I have been so frustrated with these individuals, I find myself describing them exactly as you have, but I still try to have and show respect for them.

    And although it is ďvolunteerĒ, just as you have mandatory training requirements you should expect to have mandatory participation requirements. You canít expect to have any type of cohesiveness and be able to keep up with the ever changing ways of the fire service if youíre not going to be there. Yes, as in E ngine Ltís case you are going to have exceptions but for your normal volunteer, if they canít accept the mandatory participation rules then they are probably just trying to get their jollies of riding on the big red fire truck and arenít really any asset to the department.
    While I can understand you saying that you have respect for these type of people, I have to wonder how much they care about the safety of the membership in their respective depts, and about the fire service in general. To dismiss someone who has 25+ yrs of service, especially under the circumstances of 9/11 given the fact that E ngine Ltworks for NYC, is completely ridiculous. The experience alone in someone with that amount of service is irreplaceable. The fact that he attempted to resign his position, with no avail, prior to 'leave being granted', indicates his love and admiration for the profession. The actions taken against both E ngine Lt and the Port Authority Cop, are a slap in the face to both those who died on 9/11, and the profession in general. E ngine Lt him I can and do have respect for, as far as the people who thought it was ok to toss him out, them I CAN NOT and DO NOT have respect for. They should be ashamed of themselves. They apparently have no concept of what BROTHERHOOD is...

    E ngine Lt is not one of those people who shirked his duties throughout his career, or rode on the big red fire truck for 'jollies'. Minimum training and attendance standards are necessary, but when someone has been given an open-ended LOA, it is simply not acceptable to turn around and treat them in this manner!
    Last edited by Temptaker; 05-30-2002 at 05:26 PM.

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    Temptaker - I ask again. What does AWOL mean in his company? Was he dismissed or just not given credit for that time? If he was dismissed, then I agree they are totally in the wrong and it's inexcusable of them to do this. However, if he simply did not get credit for that time, then I don't believe he should have resigned over it. EngineLT seems to be a guy who cares about firefighting, not getting credit. Let them have their childish reasons and jealousies, stay around and fight fires and help the rest of the members...don't let the dinosaurs win.

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