1. #1
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    Default Training or Liability?! You make the call!

    Thank you for everyones help. I have received more than enough information from everyone that responded through the board and by email.

    SCONFIRE
    Last edited by sconfire; 05-26-2002 at 11:49 AM.

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    If its true that their is a handline close by and it looks has if they are in a doorway with nothing to obstruct the exit out of the building and the newbies are out of the structure ...its not a bad way to watch a fire progress. They should have opened a hose line though, when the fire was at the door and the senior firefighter should not have been in the door. Looks like a lesson learned .

    Im assuming that this fire was fought from the outside after it took hold of the stucture ?
    Last edited by Ltmdepas3280; 05-25-2002 at 11:04 PM.
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    This is a training burn ...........who knows what this evolution was supposssed to be ?> maybe they are the last team and just showing these new people how the fire builds ????????? anyone ?
    Last edited by Weruj1; 05-25-2002 at 11:29 PM.
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    I will go look again ......but how do we know this isnt a traing burn ?? and they are just watching the fire ?
    It IS a Training Burn. That is the whole point! WHY would you be that close looking at the fire with no protection? I know some people would say "Lets try to see how hot we can get it", or "Lets see how long we can stand the heat". I am not saying that is what happened here. There are 2 rookies in the doorway. If something happened and the guy inside needed to exit...

    My concern is IF SOMETHING WENT WRONG, would we be calling these pictures "Evidence" instead of calling them just pictures?

    SCONFIRE

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    Weruj,
    You edited your post on me

    Here is the part of the email on the page:
    "Here are some photos I took during a live burn. The training allowed new firefighters to learn fire behavior as they watch fire progress through the stages of burning. The firefighters pictured are (SFF is Senior FF) SFF #### #####, FF #### #####, and FF #### #####."

    The fire started with these guys and ended with these guys. The Structure was 40ish x 50ish and ordinary wood frame. The fire was started inside the structure and these guys are in a built on closed in porch.

    The evolution was to be on "Fire Progression". It is explained in the email excerpt above.

    SCONFIRE

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    If you ask me, Sr FF is trying to salt up his gear a little, nothing more. Why put yourself in that type of position....especially the last photo where he is looking at the camera, kinda close there too.

    Dave

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    Did I miss Somthing ? is there a line charged ? if not...then they should be back from the Building and call the fire department
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    Interesting...however, without some more information to go on, I can't really comment on the reasoning behind their proximity to the fire. Possibly, as stated previously...they were observing the characteristics of fire progression.
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    Ok.... the whole point of this drill was for the new firefighters to see the fire build and burn the structure. That was the whole deal for the drill... Just sit right next to it and watch it burn.

    SCONFIRE

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    Ok, thats fine, but whats up with the "inside" guy?

    Dave

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    The "inside" guy is the SFF. He is wearing the Traditional style helmet. The rookies are the two regular helmets on the outside.

    SCONFIRE

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    Like I said, looks like the Sff is trying to salt up his gear.....nothing more.

    Yes there is value to showing the new guys how the fire burns, but this exercise has liability written all over it. If the Sff had to bail, he'd be crawling all over the other 2 just to get thru the door.

    Dave
    Last edited by hfd66truck; 05-26-2002 at 12:26 AM.

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    Thumbs down


    SCONFIRE.....The whole point here is:
    #1 Is what they are doing safe?
    #2 Does it comply with NFPA 1403?
    #3 Where is their protection line

    They are technically in the structure with no hose line and therefore have no protection. I dont care what they are doing...but...I would have to ask why are two probies in this position without having a protection line?...I dont care how close they are to the door.

    Did this department not know of the Lairdsville incident?? or was this prior to that? If so...ask them if they would change it now based on those disasterous happenings.

    My call is that it is an unsafe act. If I was an investigator, looking into this incident...I would say...Where was their hoseline?

    Why does the SRFF not have his earflaps down or his chinstrap in place? If it was meant to stay on the back of the helmet it would be called a "Brim strap" and if meant to be on top of the helmet a "Crown Strap". His collar also does not appear to be all the way up. Additionally, one of the "probies" does not have his earflaps down and from the picture it appears that his waist strap is not fastened.

    I am with those that say he may have been showing off and trying to salt up his gear...
    Last edited by captstanm1; 05-26-2002 at 09:51 AM.
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    My take on this is that the two "newbies" are OUTSIDE the structure,while the SFF is inside.He is setting a bad example however by remaining in the fire roon as rollover is beginning.As far as progression is concerned,as long as what Sconfire posted is correct,this team is in no imminent danger.T.C.

  15. #15
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    I am with 101 on this ...............
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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