1. #1
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    Default Heres one for Lutan.

    Lutan
    I was sent this image by an associate. He thought it looked interesting, I started thinking "How would I ..."

    Now noticing the driver still in the vehicle, how would you.
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    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    PS. the whole image shows a damn big drop below.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    i've seen that pic before, and my guess would be very carefully.
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    “Engine 2 to Dispatch”

    “Go ahead Engine 2”

    “We’re onscene. Get ahold of Tulsa Dispatch and see if we can get their high angle rescue team started this way, and have Harness wrecker send the one ton and the big wrecker.”


    Along with the Tulsa’s high angle team and the wreckers, I’m going to get our Brush 4 started…the military 6x6 with the 20,000# winch. We’ll use it for stabilization.

    In the meantime, I going to block that boat so it doesn’t go over the edge (hopefully).

    I’m assuming that it’s a standard ball-hitch that is attaching the trailer to the boat. I don’t understand how it’s still connected.

    If we can get the vehicles stabilized enough with wreckers and Brush 4, we might (big might) consider trying to lower and stabilize ladders down that slope. Maybe.

    At least the patient appears to be conscious.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

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    He looks conscious and does not look pinned, so I would immediately lower a lifeline with a harness or even a loop for him to put under his arms, and tie it off or rig it to a raising system. Then have him wait with his upper body positioned out of the window.

    If the hitch gives up and the truck goes, he will come out the window instead of riding it down.

    Tim
    www.rescue42.com

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    Drop anchor!
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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    We don't have any vehicles of the calibre described by SilverCity, but I definitely agree with the principle. Stabalization of both truck and boat are absolute paramount.

    We do have a 1 ton Ford 350 4x4 (Truck 5), and of course Engine 1 (FL70). I think I would start by having the Engine chain off to the truck, and have T5 chain off to the boat. For this one, we would probably consider calling out the 3k gal tanker too (Truck 2). Have T2 also chain off on the truck over the side, to keep it in place.

    While all this is going on, mutual aid to Shawningan Lake would also be made, they have the local high angle rescue unit. Somewhere in all this, the heavy lift wreckers had better be on the way too!

    The driver doesn't appear to be injured, and as long as he stays calm throughout the operation, things are good. After that, it would be a matter of dragging the truck back to the road. I don't have a safe way to remove the driver at this point, would have to rely on the high angle guys, when they arrive on scene.

    Rescue42's idea of trying to belay a life line onto the driver, and have him lean out the window strikes me as a potentially dangerous idea. I am not certified in high angle rescue, so it may be a viable method of extraction.
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    First thought is it's time to get a nylon tow strap around that rear axle.

    Second thought is that's an awful dangerous place to send someone.

    Third though is I'm glad we still have some of those 12' pike poles...

    Rescue carries logging chains (one end grab hook, one end slip hook).

    Engine-Tank has the strap.

    Use a long pike pole to drop the tow strap end over the axle, use another to grab it and pull it back. Logging chains go around the tow hooks on ET and secure the tow strap to them.

    With forty thousand pounds of ET with brakes set and chocks down that's a good start towards stabilization.

    As a backup, I'd like to hookup a winch cable either from our Rescue or more likely our Service truck. And if possible, have them do it from another angle for additional stability and limit the possibility of truck pivoting.

    Now, we start to figure out how to get the gentleman out!

    Not quite sure, but I'm thinking it may involve the tip of our aerial being used as an anchor point directly above the truck...

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    DOH!

    Let's try and do this in step/point form:-

    1) Scene Control. Get rid of the spectators and any unnecessary emergency services personnel away. That's an awfully unbalanced and unsecure scene.

    2) Heavy Salvage Tow Trucj connected to the trailer first. We're not going anywhere near that car unless the trailer is secured first.

    3) Second Heavy Salvage Tow Truck reversed in on the right hand side of the boat trailer.

    4) Rescue or Pumper parked parallel to the incident. (Where the spectators currently are standing in the picture.) We're anchoring rope rescue teams off this vehicle.

    5) Let's get a closer look at the hitch and see how secure it is. If it appears to be as OK as it's going to be, lets connect the second Heavy Salvage to the vehicle.

    6) Whilst this is occurring, get the Larkin Rescue Frame set up above or as close to the casualty position as possible. We can lower a rescuer out and down to him from this.

    7) Lower rescuer down to the casualty with a rescue strop. Place them in it and raise both the rescuer and casualty up on the Larkin Frame.


    Another option may be.....

    Once the vehicle is secured by the tow. Lets take up the tension and either uncouple or cut the tow hitch and get rid of the trailer all together.

    Winch the car up and remove the casualty from there. (This is based on the assumption that the casualty appears to be unhurt and is moving. He's already attempted to climb out, so leave him there until the vehicle is in a safer position.


    Another option again, may be.....

    Call for a crane.

    Rig a 4:1 recovery system off the crane. (We can legally use a crane as a static anchor but not for life lifting purposes.) Don't rig a "Z-Pull because no one will be able to reset it when its out over the edge.) Lower a strop down to the casualty and then using the recovery system, haul them out of the vehcile and up.


    Now if this is a successful rescue, then that boat is mine! Get your eyes off it!
    Last edited by lutan1; 06-08-2002 at 01:41 AM.
    Luke

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    Lutan I know you like lateral thinking, so why not fill the area with water! I can go scuba diving and buddy breath with the guy in the car until he reaches the surface and you can prepare the boat by getting out the fishing rods or water skiing gear. Just make sure that the esky is well stocked.

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    Hey cool,another easy one!Hook first arriving Fire apparatus to trailer via chain,strap, rope,whatever ya got.Next get a Hydraulic boom tow truck there,a double winch 1 to 2 ton model will do nicely.Rig double lines to the truck frame and slide it back to the roadway with the driver right where they are.Estimated pull,less than 1500#.While this looks kinda bad,it is a very easy recovery I've done MANY times.The reason for double lining is redundant safeties and to slow line speed to protect your patient.Put little faith in the ball hitch at that angle.Heavy wreckers are NOT necessary, the heaviest load here is probably the boat(the tail wagged the dog,that's why the truck is where it is)the truck is in the 4000-4500# range.The average small wrecker has 8000-10,000# winches,here you're lifting only a fraction of that.T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 06-08-2002 at 01:07 PM.

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    Unhappy "DAMNIT BOY!" TEXAS FIRE CHIEF

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    Initially, I thought we could just winch the truck back onto the roadway with the victim inside as well, but I discarded the idea. Not because I think it won't work, but because I wondered if it would aggravate any of the victims injuries. I think that winching the truck back on the road with the victim inside should be a last resort.

    Any thoughts?
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

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    i don't think winching would do due to the truck being turned on it's side (in a manner of speaking). i agree with the idea of lowering a rope with a harness on it to the driver as long as it's set up to the right of the truck (from the picture angle) that way if the truck and boat goes over, the driver is hit by the boat as he comes out.

    Other than that, all the other ideas sound good to me. Like the idea of an aerial overhead with the ropes.

    Luckily our area doesn't have anything like this, d'oh nevermind just thought of a place similar to this.
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    Ryan/SC4,I would not worry about winching this vehicle back to the roadway utilizing the equipment I mentioned.The chance of aggravating any injury is a much lower percentage than Fire/Rescue personnel will have if they try to operate in a where is mode.With a hydraulic stick tow truck rigged double lines,not only can you control the speed of ascent you can GENTLY turn the truck back onto it's wheels and "roll" it up the incline to the road where you can safely attend to your patient.In a second look at the pictue I believe the only thing holdind the trailer to the truck is the safety chains/cables.As soon as I had the truck secured,I'd move the trailer out of the way.EMS folks tremble at the thought of this operation,but having done several similar I believe it is the safest approach for all involved. I'm pleased to see that several of you are including towing companies in your "toolbox"(resources).Winches with proper training and application are powerful tools.Don't need to own all the tools,just need to know where to find them.T.C.

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    Post SCENE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THE VEHICLES

    I think that winching the truck back on the road with the victim inside should be a last resort.
    I was taught that the first thing you do is secure the scene.
    You make sure that any excess fuel is controlled with absorb all to control flammable vapors in the area. Then you have a charged hose line or extinguisher at your back before you approach the vehicle. Finally, you make sure that the ground is shored, the vehicles are stable, and that you are not between the extricating devices and the vehicle. Although, depending on the scenario, this is all up in the air.

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    Malahat, I am a High Angle rescue tech. However, the issue is more basic than that. I look at this scene and assume that the truck could go AT ANY MOMENT. Personally, I wouldn't want anybody doing anything until I was able to try to offer the driver some chance of survival if the truck tries to turn itself into a plane. How bad would you feel if you were tying off the trailer and accidently bumped it causing the truck to break loose.

    A simple rope under the arms of the driver and positioned up to the right (as we are viewing this) will probably save the driver's life if the truck goes. He will slide out the window (or he can jump) and will pendulum to the right to clear out of the way. Tossing him the rope does not put any of my people at risk, doesn't threaten the stability of the existing scene, and takes seconds.

    Once I have offered him a chance at survival if things go wrong (that's what we always try to plan for...), THEN I can try tying off the trailer, truck, etc.

    Tim
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    I agree with Rescue 42 on this one, Life first, car second.

    While getting the life line in, Tie the boat trailer off to an engine.

    Now line rescue with stokes basket from the LEFT hand side (as looking at the picture) and bring the vic over the top of the cab. My reason for this angle is that if that tow ball gives way the truck will fall and roll to the right with the ground angle.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Hey cool,another easy one!Hook first arriving Fire apparatus to trailer via chain,strap, rope,whatever ya got.Next get a Hydraulic boom tow truck there,a double winch 1 to 2 ton model will do nicely.Rig double lines to the truck frame and slide it back to the roadway with the driver right where they are.Estimated pull,less than 1500#.While this looks kinda bad,it is a very easy recovery I've done MANY times.The reason for double lining is redundant safeties and to slow line speed to protect your patient.Put little faith in the ball hitch at that angle.Heavy wreckers are NOT necessary, the heaviest load here is probably the boat(the tail wagged the dog,that's why the truck is where it is)the truck is in the 4000-4500# range.The average small wrecker has 8000-10,000# winches,here you're lifting only a fraction of that.T.C.
    Rescue101... With ALL due respect, I think you need to re-think the pull required again... Does the vehicle roll free? or is it "damage resistance" I say Damage.... anything over a 45degree embankment would also be considered 100% of the vehicle weight for the pull...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Hey cool,another easy one!Hook first arriving Fire apparatus to trailer via chain,strap, rope,whatever ya got.Next get a Hydraulic boom tow truck there,a double winch 1 to 2 ton model will do nicely.Rig double lines to the truck frame and slide it back to the roadway with the driver right where they are.Estimated pull,less than 1500#.While this looks kinda bad,it is a very easy recovery I've done MANY times.The reason for double lining is redundant safeties and to slow line speed to protect your patient.Put little faith in the ball hitch at that angle.Heavy wreckers are NOT necessary, the heaviest load here is probably the boat(the tail wagged the dog,that's why the truck is where it is)the truck is in the 4000-4500# range.The average small wrecker has 8000-10,000# winches,here you're lifting only a fraction of that.T.C.
    Rescue101, with ALL due respect, I think that you need to re-think the "pull" on this one...anything over a 45 degree embankment, should be considered 100% of the vehicle weight...
    Harold Williams
    WreckMaster Level 6/7A
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    Owner of www.towinfo.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by harold67wm View Post
    Rescue101, with ALL due respect, I think that you need to re-think the "pull" on this one...anything over a 45 degree embankment, should be considered 100% of the vehicle weight...
    Harold,WM myself. 1500 P/u on side,ON LEDGE. Maine has LOTS of ledge. I believe,based on doing several similar jobs,that my calculations are in line. If you feel they are incorrect; add another Block. In ANY event,this job can be EASILY handled with a smaller wrecker, a HD is NOT required. On THAT point I am CERTAIN. These slide very nicely on that smooth side, much like a toboggan on snow. But I'll defer to your higher rating,as I carry only a 4/5. T.C.

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    First thought is it's time to get a nylon tow strap around that rear axle.
    Around the axle???....really??? Do you really think an axle would be a good anchor point??

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    I'm going another route with this one. Tie off the boat trailer to first arriving apparatus with chain.

    Then have aerial with a platform, something like an aerialscope swing bucket directly over the victim and have rescue hanging under bucket via rope system. Lower down with Aztec and strop the vic, raise up and on land.

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    Harold,here's a WM challenge for YOU. Next time you are on the training ground,if you have an embankment and a Chev P/U along with a Dyno put it in the same situation,put the dyno inline and see what you get.Post a picture of the Dyno reading. If I get on the Grounds first with a Dyno,I'll do it. Chances are HIGHER for you being near a dyno than me. Be interesting to see the results. Never do in public what you haven't practiced in private(WM). The next time I'm apt to see a Dyno is when Billy makes the next Northern circuit. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEAN15 View Post
    Around the axle???....really??? Do you really think an axle would be a good anchor point??
    Believe it or not,it's a better choice than the bumper. I'd prefer the frame. T.C.

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