1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaddie
    ( yes even live training fires are different because there mostly minus all household furnishings)


    actually, we fill houses with old furniture when we do live burns so that the training is more realistic
    Last edited by concordfire; 04-29-2006 at 11:09 PM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hsvfdsta4
    They are allowed to run on and have PT contact on EMS calls, which I strongly disagree with.

    whats wrong with that??? all of our exporers ride in the ambulance since 85% of calls are medical and all of the paramedics find the explorers as a great asset in the back of the ambulance!!!.....did you disagree with it when you were a junior???

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    Quote Originally Posted by concordfire
    just wondering but shouldn't your bottles always be full??? and shouldnt they always be checked often to make sure they are full?? what good is a half full air bottle???
    Not to be a smart@$$, but how do you know the bottle is half full? That's alittle over-optimistic. Maybe its half empty...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Co11FireGal
    Our juniors (so far, I'm the only one) can go on calls after completeing Firemanship I. We can not respond on any department apparatus to an emergency, we have to respond in a PV or with another member. We may ride apparatus for parades, to training, and for special events. As for our duties on the fireground, our SOGs say, "Junior firefighters may, under the direct supervision of another fire department member, assist in performing traffic control, mop up operations, assisting in communications, search operations and logistical support." It kinda sucks that we don't get to do a whole lot, but it's state law. That's the way it is.

    ok so you are telling me that they don't let you ride the truck to a call but they will let you drive your POV to a call? that is a first for me, it is more of a liability for you to drive your POV than it is to ride the truck. yall could get in big trouble for that one day, most of the departments will not let juniors drive to calls, when i was a junior i would have been kicked out if i would have driven to a call.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartse
    Becuse my Dept. is a rag tag bunch of under trained people(myself included) i can say that I at age 17 do everything that some one 34 does, intial attack, mop-up, pumps, long distance mutial aid calls, however the only thing that i can't do is drive a truck.
    i dont care how many wavers you have signed or how under trained the other firefighters are, your OSFM and DOI and ISO and, hell even NFPA and VFIS, if your redneck ***** knows what all of those are dont care how many wavers you signed either. the second you get a bug bite on one of those call there will be no insurence to cover you and your FD will most likely be removed completly. and i am not even going to go into child labor laws.

    but i think that you are bull @$#%, in my own opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgfire3
    i dont care how many wavers you have signed or how under trained the other firefighters are, your OSFM and DOI and ISO and, hell even NFPA and VFIS, if your redneck ***** knows what all of those are dont care how many wavers you signed either. the second you get a bug bite on one of those call there will be no insurence to cover you and your FD will most likely be removed completly. and i am not even going to go into child labor laws.

    but i think that you are bull @$#%, in my own opinion
    I guess everyone is entilted to there own opinion. No i will admit that i don't know what they are. I am just happy that there are people like you out there that are willing to help in change things like this.

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    I'm gonna have to agree with PGfire on this one, you are going to get SCREWED. You can't be involved in any interior attack...period. Support, exterior attack, sure, but you are NOT allowed in any IDLH atmosphere. If you do go in and you get hurt, your town's insurance company will nail you to the nearest wall. I'd cut that out quick.

    Also, I've heard rumors that in NY State you can be 16 and be Firefighter 1. Is this just total crap or is there any truth? Because if that's true, I'm joining the department over the border...

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    Quote Originally Posted by concordfire
    just wondering but shouldn't your bottles always be full??? and shouldnt they always be checked often to make sure they are full?? what good is a half full air bottle???
    And Im quite sure that 99.9% of SCBA in service today have a guage thats readable and in perfect view that yah dont need a junior to get yah to check the bottle for yah
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    and i dont understand why someone would put and scba back in the truck to be used if it wasn't full??? a half full or HALF EMPTY...LOL bottle is no good!!

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    I don't think Explorers should be doing more than toting tools up to where someone standing AWAY from the fire can get it and helping with rehab.
    If a kid gets hurt on a fire call,afterwards there's going to be so much "stuff"rolling downhill and engulfing the IC,engine officer and pretty much anyone that was there that it wouldn't be funny.
    Yes,I know the extra hands may be necessary at times but they should stay in support roles until they are 18 or 21(depending on your State or Commonwealth laws)and are legally able to decide for themselves to join the dpeartment as a full member.
    Learn by watching and as another poster said,your time will come soon enough for you to go in and see that what he said about low viz,heat and noise is really true.
    If anyone thinks that an underage Explorer who has all the same training that the"real"firefighters have should be allowed on an interior attack line,ask yourself,how would you explain it to YOUR Mom if YOU were the one injured or even killed?What would you say that would alleviate her grief?
    Last edited by doughesson; 05-03-2006 at 03:40 PM.

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    Sounds like someone in your chain of command needs to learn what the minimum distance for a collapse zone is.Hint:One and a half times the structure height.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfexplorer923
    At no point during this are we allowed to be within 15-20ft of the house.

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    If some of you guys would have read my earlier posts The number of calls we get dispatched to are in all honetsy 99% Grass fires. Where is the "collapse zone" there?

    There is another thing that everyone here continues to miss that is the fact that at best we have 4 people show up to a call. There is not nearly enough people to compltely stock our Iron. So every one is going to scream for mutail aid. haha, thats is over 45 mintues away from base, god only knows how far the call is from there.

    This is going to sound arragont, stupid, and kind of cocky but when it comes down to it, i could careless if i knew i was going to be arrested when it was all said and done, I wouldn't let some one's house burn up with or without some one in it. I would go in regardless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartse
    If some of you guys would have read my earlier posts The number of calls we get dispatched to are in all honetsy 99% Grass fires. Where is the "collapse zone" there?

    There is another thing that everyone here continues to miss that is the fact that at best we have 4 people show up to a call. There is not nearly enough people to compltely stock our Iron. So every one is going to scream for mutail aid. haha, thats is over 45 mintues away from base, god only knows how far the call is from there.

    This is going to sound arragont, stupid, and kind of cocky but when it comes down to it, i could careless if i knew i was going to be arrested when it was all said and done, I wouldn't let some one's house burn up with or without some one in it. I would go in regardless.
    Grass fires aren't the point...Who cares about them...The 1% of the time you are even in the collapse zone your breakin a s**t load of laws....You might not give a crap But I'm sure if your dept gets busted and charged and all that other good stuff...You'll regret that...Or better yet..You get injured...That will be s**t hittin the fan like nothing else....If your dept relies on you that much you guys really have issues and I especially feel bad for your dept and community..
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 05-03-2006 at 10:01 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    We do and we will be the first to admitt it.

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    I quoted YOUR post where you said that you weren't allowed within 15-20 feet of a house.That doesn't sound much like a grass fire to me.
    Trees collapse when exposed to fire.Ever hear of a widowmaker in wildland firefighting class?
    You can still get killed at a grass fire.I took a firefighter survival and rescue class last spring and a wildfire class last fall and in both instances,there were numerous accounts of firefighters being killed during"simple and safe"grass fires.
    Your department sounds like it needs some serious adult supervision if they are putting minors in harm's way like that.This job is dangerous enough without those that who are supposed to know better doing stuff like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hartse
    If some of you guys would have read my earlier posts The number of calls we get dispatched to are in all honetsy 99% Grass fires. Where is the "collapse zone" there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndvfdff33
    The 1% of the time you are even in the collapse zone your breakin a s**t load of laws....
    I hear this often. Can anyone tell me where I can find these laws so I can have them to refer to? Can you tell me the chapter in the Code of Federal Regulations where they are printed?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson
    I quoted YOUR post where you said that you weren't allowed within 15-20 feet of a house.That doesn't sound much like a grass fire to me.
    Where did I say that Slick?

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    *Sniff Sniff* I smell smoke... anybody else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief310
    I hear this often. Can anyone tell me where I can find these laws so I can have them to refer to? Can you tell me the chapter in the Code of Federal Regulations where they are printed?

    Thanks
    #1 You will have to look up the Child Labor Laws in your state.

    #2 Being in the "collapes zone" is dangerous. Look that one up in the NFPA Codes.

    #3 I know that in the state of Texas, the CLL states that no child will be placed in any danger on the job.

    #4 Firefighting is a job whether you are paid or not.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

    ** "The comments made here are this person's views and possibly that of the organizations to which I am affiliated" **

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson
    I quoted YOUR post where you said that you weren't allowed within 15-20 feet of a house.

    I believe that was tfexplorer923 that said that.
    Just someone trying to help! (And by the way....Thanks for YOUR help!)

    Aggressive does not have to equal stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPFire1618
    *Sniff Sniff* I smell smoke... anybody else?
    LOL..Thats funny right there I dont care who yah are
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by THEFIRENUT
    #1 You will have to look up the Child Labor Laws in your state.

    #2 Being in the "collapes zone" is dangerous. Look that one up in the NFPA Codes.

    #3 I know that in the state of Texas, the CLL states that no child will be placed in any danger on the job.

    #4 Firefighting is a job whether you are paid or not.
    I checked the child labor laws in my state and found no reference to firefighting at all. There were quite a few occupations and activities listed as prohibited, but not firefighting or emergency medicine.

    I checked NFPA 1500 and found no reference to a collapse zone. According to section 8.1.7, it's up to the incident commander to "control the position and function of all members operating at the scene and to ensure that safety requirements are satisfied." If a "collapse zone" is defined somewhere else in NFPA, then I missed it. If you could tell me where to find it, I would be grateful.

    I've heard that 1 1/2 X the height of the building = collapse zone before, but I believe it's more a rule of thumb than a law or standard. It certainly makes sense, but I think it must be applied with a wee bit of common sense. If a fire is in the initial stages, then the structure will be in no danger of collapse and therefore the 1 1/2 rule might not apply. If the same structure is fully envolved, then of course it's a different story. The bottom line is that it's up to the IC to make that call.

    I'm not in Texas, but I'm wondering what their definition of ANY danger is. It seems to me that it is virtually impossible to completely eliminate all risk from any job or activity. A kid delivering newspapers on his bicycle could get hit by a car, so even that job is not without risk.

    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that youth program members should be allowed to conduct interior fire attacks. I don't think that's a good idea at all. I'm simply suggesting that before we start criticizing another fire department and accusing them of breaking laws, we better be sure of our facts first and be ready to back them up with specific citations.
    Last edited by Chief310; 05-05-2006 at 05:30 PM.

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    If your Explorer Post is officially chartered throught the Boy Scouts, Learning for life than your charter also specifies what an explorer can and can not do. This is due to Learning for Life Insurance. If your organization does not charter through them, than they ought to look into it as they offer clear guidelines as to what activities are allowed, and they offer liability insurance as well. If you are not chartered through the BSA than I would assume your local labor laws should specify what a junior firefighter can or can not do. There is also the thought process that Exploring/Junior FireFighters are there to learn, and observe, they should not be put in a position where they are in danger for a ton of reasons, one of which is these are "kids" and they are excited, and will not tell an officer, or senior firefighter that they should not/do not want to do something because they feel it is dangerous. I have said it before, and I will say it again, if a department NEEDS to put explorers in these situations due to "staffing" than they need to look at other options, they should not be relying on and counting explorers/juniors into their response matrix.

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    Here in my vermont town we are allowed to responde to all calls, execpt when we are in school, we can basically do everything on the fire ground execpt enter a burning building, during training if the cheif oks it we are allowed to do everything the firefighters do.

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    Talking We are able...

    to respond to any call before during or after school hours 24 hrs. a day 7 days a week but, we are volunteer
    THE ONLY STUPID QUESTION ASKED IS THE ONE NOT ASKED!!!!!

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