1. #76
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    on my dept jrs can do anything and everything on a call xcept drive a rig or go interior but we are allowed to go interior for salvage and overhaul. We are allowed to fight a fire 24-7/365. And any FF is capable of making the first out truck. only our chief has red blue and so does our asst chiefs....in my opion i think that it is wrong to underestimate the jr FFs! jf FF should be greatly respected..im not saying that they arent but sitting here reading these forums that some FF think that we jrs useless...how many time have you used the jr ff to help you in any way possible and gladly done it for you...ALMOST all the time(saying almost bcuz there might b 1 or 2 cases)

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFDdonk
    on my dept jrs can do anything and everything on a call xcept drive a rig or go interior but we are allowed to go interior for salvage and overhaul. We are allowed to fight a fire 24-7/365. And any FF is capable of making the first out truck. only our chief has red blue and so does our asst chiefs....in my opion i think that it is wrong to underestimate the jr FFs! jf FF should be greatly respected..im not saying that they arent but sitting here reading these forums that some FF think that we jrs useless...how many time have you used the jr ff to help you in any way possible and gladly done it for you...ALMOST all the time(saying almost bcuz there might b 1 or 2 cases)

    First of all, welcome to the forums WFDdonk. Secondly, please take this as a friendly piece of advice before you start to get cracked on, by using proper english grammar and punctuation you will be taken seriously and respected on these forums.

    Like has been said numerous times before, each FD has their own way of doing things that works for them. In some departments obviously, the jrs/explorers are used more in a tactical sense than in other departments. If I did not mention this above, I am an explorer and I consider our post very lucky to have the relationship that we do with our department.

    Some examples:
    - Just a few weeks ago our Asst. Chief came in and taught the explorers an Incident Command class
    - Just yesterday we rode in our city's memorial day parade
    - This past weekend a truck was taken out of service for us to use at a training day
    - We help out at most dept. functions (pancake breakfast, car show, open house)
    - We do fireworks standby with the dept.
    - And one of the most important, at least I think, is that the firefighters don't think that they are too good to talk to us explorers. There is not a firefighter on our dept. that wouldn't take the time to stop and talk to an explorer of help teach them something. And as a matter of fact, quite a few of the FF's are good friends of a few explorers.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer
    First of all, welcome to the forums WFDdonk. Secondly, please take this as a friendly piece of advice before you start to get cracked on, by using proper english grammar and punctuation you will be taken seriously and respected on these forums.
    Amen to that!
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by BPFire1618
    *Tones* 589 on the air, fire department is requested for an investigation. Report of a fully involved FLAME WAR....

    Just let it go... he doesn't understand so just forget it. No use getting tied up in a flame war which will probably end up getting us in trouble. Just to all senior FFs reading this post, the actions of Hartse DO NOT represent the attitudes/actions of all juniors/cadets/explorers, so please do not have your opinions tainted. Most of us follow the rules just like everyone else.
    Ya i am sorry to say that i do not want to be a little pussy that stays back at the hall or watchs something happening from the sidelines. Until you come to my side of the woods keep your traps shut about something you know nothing about, hey here is a news flash for your east coast ***'s my dept is not the only place where age is not a factor. Get this Much through YOUR heads i have done this since i was old enough to swing a pulaski and probly have more experince than most of the other exploers on this site, so i higly doubt that the law is going to affect me this far into the ball game. Get over it.



    Later Alex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartse
    Ya i am sorry to say that i do not want to be a little pussy that stays back at the hall or watchs something happening from the sidelines. Until you come to my side of the woods keep your traps shut about something you know nothing about, hey here is a news flash for your east coast ***'s my dept is not the only place where age is not a factor. Get this Much through YOUR heads i have done this since i was old enough to swing a pulaski and probly have more experince than most of the other exploers on this site, so i higly doubt that the law is going to affect me this far into the ball game. Get over it.



    Later Alex
    You honestly don't get it..The law...Is Law..Your not invisible..It will catch up to you (hopefully) and when it does we'll all be sitting here laughing our "east coast a**es" off at you and your silly little dept..Its a federal law so therefore GUESS WHAT it doesn't vary from one coast to the other..Theres plenty of other jobs on a fire ground you can do man without doing interior and risking getting injured and your dept getting and s**t pretty much probably leaving your town without a fire dept to protect them..But then again your a god in the world of firefighting at the infinate age of 17 and that would never happen.

    P.S. BWAHAHAHAHAA..Thank you I haven't laughed like I did the whole time I read this post in a long time...Your sad attempts at being the big bad ***** explorer who does it all was rather amuzing
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

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    hey there *** ears no longer a explorer.

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    Ok then... you didn't tell anyone else that you got on the dept. so chill out dude.

    And if you think that if you stay back at the station you are a p***y you are dead wrong and obviously have alot to learn.

    Like was said before, the law is the law and just because you don't like what it says doesn't mean that you can shape it as you see fit. Just because you have "been doing this since you have been swinging a pulaski" (in his own words folks) doesn't mean that you can say "to hell with the law, I know what I'm doing, I can't get into trouble for this. And if I may ask, why do you think that your dept is the end all to the inferno's of the earth as we know it? There are members of the FDNY here that even though they obviously know that they are on one of the most famous/respected/ and the busiest FD in the country. They don't bash anyone else because Joe Schmoe FD pulls a 1 3/4" on initial attack into a commercial structure because of manpower issues. And, they can stand by everything they do. (e.g.- a thread about a year back about a 2 alarmer in NYC, video shot from news chopper shows first in trucks arriving and most of attack from above. FDNY members gave good reasons for the moves that the brothers took and thats that.

    And I have to prove myself to NO ONE. By being respectful and law abiding I have made a few friends over these forums and they have stuck up for me on more than a few occasions.

    And another piece of friendly advice, if you are no longer an explorer and are in fact on a department, please do not go in thinking "I know everything I will ever need to know and I know more than the rest of the guys because 'I have been doing this since I have been swining a pulaski."

    P.S.- Like has been said 45243652463589074356908 times before on these forums, if your department depends on explorers/juniors/cadets or whatever you call your members under 18 for fire attack or other similar fireground duties, your dept has issues it needs to work out and should look into mutual aid. Hell we have 3 guys on duty from 8-4 every day, on the weekends most people show up for a call, but during the week when people work, the call turnout even for a fire may be slim. For this reason we have mutual aid agreements that get other apparatus rolling no matter what time of day it is and how many people are responding to the station.
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    Amen !!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartse
    hey there *** ears no longer a explorer.
    *** Ears?????

    Guess it helps when you TELL US this stuff...Your holiness

    RFRD Well Put Man....But honestly his dept is the do all and end all of the fire service with his wealth of knowledge and expertise because with the amount of years he's put in he must be a force to be reckoned with...


    Hey Hartse...Please tell me what Firefighter courses have you completed over the many years that you feel gives you the right to break LAWS (keyword here) and enter a burning structure
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 06-06-2006 at 09:06 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    You know what TO EACH HIS OWN....thats all

    and the funny thing is Hartse says he has been doing this since he was 14 which is fine whatever there are people on these forums that have been firefighting longer than you have been alive...yeah go figure people firefighting longer than 18 years...and another thing if you and your FD are breaking the laws then whatever it will catch up eventually maybe not soon but someday...also you said you have more experience then most explorers on this site well honestly who cares? So how is it like in your neck of the woods I mean if some people arent understanding then give everyone a heads up on how it is....
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    The department that I used to be an explorer with (combo dept) had the following regulations. Once the explorer joins he is issued his uniform polo and tshirt to be worn at all meetings and events. They are on a probationary period for the first 6 months (12 meetings). Once they have been in attendance for 12 meetings and 2 events, they are allowed to do a prelim ridealong with the senior advisor. Then the senior advisor grants the explorer full permission to ride at any station on any shift if he feels that the explorer has meet the requriments and has the attitude that is appropiate for riding out. The explorer must contact the senior officer onduty at the station that he intends to ride at. He must get permission of that officer to ride at his station. The explorer reports to the senior officer and recieves his riding assignemnt, the explorer will usualy be allowed to jump truck, but in some instances the explorer will be assigned to one unit only. The shift that I rode with required the explorer to be familiar with each unit at the station and location of 100% of the eqipment before they were allowed to ride. With each ridealong a "crituque form" is filled out by both the officer on duty and the explorer, this form was used as quality control to insure that the explorer was not abusing the program in any way and that the explorer was conducting themselves in the highest manner.

    On medical calls the explorer is to carry the equipment neccesary for the call and follow the directions of the officer on scene. The explorer usualy helps with getting the cot ready for the paitent and assisting with the medic crew's gear and clearing a path for the cot.

    Myself, once i got my emt, I was allowed to do basic pt exams with the assitances of a medic or another emt. SUch as bp's, pt history.

    On accidents and car fires, the explorer helps in any way that is deemed appropiate by his officer. Usualy the explorer is responsible for assiting the ff's with getting needed tools and clean up after the incident.

    On fires, co's, hazmats, or any call not deemed medical or vehicle accident the explorer will stay with the apparatus operator and assist him in his duties, on large incidents the explorer will report to his officer and assist the crew in any way that the officer deems appropiate. Usualy the explorer is assigned to help command with duties such as grabbing the pucks off the first in companies, rehab, running info, and in some rare instances running an exterior attack line or monitor with a senior ff guiding him.

    *An explorer is allowed to pack up, when the smoke conditions on the fireground become a danger.*
    DISCLAMER, an explorer is only allowed to pack up once the explorer has completed the air pack competency course 5 times and the senior advisor can sign off that the explorer has the profeciency to pack up. Those explorers that are not certified to pack up will be asked to sit in the apparatus or move to a location where the smoke is not present and not move untill directed by the safety officer.

    NO explorers are allowed to be on the interior of any fire attack. The only time that an explorer will be allowed inside a fire scene is with the senior officer or an other officer durring clean up learning why certain techniques are used and showing some of the signs of the fire.
    FF I
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    ---------------------------------------------------

    The light at the end of the tunnel has been temporarly shut off due to the current work load. The Mangement

    When all else fails USE DUCT-TAPE!!!

    My views posted in this fourm are my personal views only and do not reflect on any agencies that I am afiliated with.

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    Not to get in to this little battle of ego's But as much as I hate to say it, not saying its wrong or right, This is by no means the first time that I have heard of this being down out here. I am not saying it is right or wrong, but contrary to public belif the law is broken some times and for a good reason too.

    FDNY101TRUCK- You said to each his own. I agree with that, however if Hartse knows the law before doing "intital attack" and feels that he/she needs to, anyways for any reasons, understaffed, overworked, little-to-no aid available, My hats off to him, or her for risking his/her *** to do something they belived needed done.

    However I do think this has moved from Asking Juniors there Jobs on scence to more of a ****ing match between Hartse,ndvfdff33, and RFDxploer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker
    Not to get in to this little battle of ego's But as much as I hate to say it, not saying its wrong or right, This is by no means the first time that I have heard of this being down out here. I am not saying it is right or wrong, but contrary to public belif the law is broken some times and for a good reason too.

    FDNY101TRUCK- You said to each his own. I agree with that, however if Hartse knows the law before doing "intital attack" and feels that he/she needs to, anyways for any reasons, understaffed, overworked, little-to-no aid available, My hats off to him, or her for risking his/her *** to do something they belived needed done.

    However I do think this has moved from Asking Juniors there Jobs on scence to more of a ****ing match between Hartse,ndvfdff33, and RFDxploer.
    Very good..You have a keen eye for the obvious.But it seems you don't get it either whacker....Sure its good he felt the need to go into the fire....But if he did get hurt you think the law is gonna say "oh well he felt the need to enter this structure for the overall outcome of the scene"...Sorry brother but thats not gonna be the case.He's is/was a junior, I don't know it changes all the time.Do you think at fourteen or even 17 years old, he has the knowledge to even know half of what is required on interior attack other than the obvious wet on the red...I doubt it..His dept would more than likely take a s**t kickin because of his want and need to be on an attack line...Sorry But thats not something I give my hats off too...Calling it a ****ing match or whatever you feel is right but I come from somewhere and many of the others here come from a place where things are done RIGHT and proper...
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Well his heart is in the right place by saying he did what he did because there was no one else ok whatever great but his mind is in the wrong place for the simple fact the he knowingly is breaking the law. Like ndvfdff33 said if something bad happens the insurance companies are going to be like well why we he inside anyways according to law he is not allowed? Then his cheif will have alot of explaining to do....What is an example of when the law should be broken for good reason? Just curious to what you say thats all....And this isnt a ****ing match about ego's its more about how a 14 year old thinks he knows everything about fighting fires when he cant even do interior firefighting (oh wait thats the other moron in the other thread). But again its about these younger kids who think they know everything.
    NEVER FORGET!
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    Will Agree with that. Here is a Scenario for you, You have a pateint that is in a very bad acciednt at the state line between Montana and North Dakota, There is no way that this patient will last over 20 mintues, with a ALS Interception. The closest hospital in North Dakota is 40 Mintues away.

    Or are you going to take that patient across state lines to the Montana hospital that is less then 10 mintues away?

    Well If you where a human I would hope that you would say number 2 and take the Pt. into Montana, If you did, you just broke the law. Acorrding to state medical director(Dr. Hammer) It is illegal for a tramu vic. to be taken into Montana. Why? Because Montana Hospitals do not have Tramua Numbers, There for he will not recoginze them as hospitals.


    So what would you do? Is That a Law that is worth breaking? If this secnario ever happens, you bet your *** that I will lose my license to save someones life , and if that is the way it has to be then so be it. I know that in my Mind I Did the right thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker
    Will Agree with that. Here is a Scenario for you, You have a pateint that is in a very bad acciednt at the state line between Montana and North Dakota, There is no way that this patient will last over 20 mintues, with a ALS Interception. The closest hospital in North Dakota is 40 Mintues away.

    Or are you going to take that patient across state lines to the Montana hospital that is less then 10 mintues away?

    Well If you where a human I would hope that you would say number 2 and take the Pt. into Montana, If you did, you just broke the law. Acorrding to state medical director(Dr. Hammer) It is illegal for a tramu vic. to be taken into Montana. Why? Because Montana Hospitals do not have Tramua Numbers, There for he will not recoginze them as hospitals.


    So what would you do? Is That a Law that is worth breaking? If this secnario ever happens, you bet your *** that I will lose my license to save someones life , and if that is the way it has to be then so be it. I know that in my Mind I Did the right thing.
    I'm pretty sure that this is not a concern around here....I could be wrong though. And this is a different situation than the one mentioned by Hartse, this situation involves a trauma pt. with EMT or medics on scene and a life is at stake here. His situation involves a house fire with qualified FF's on scene that can perform the tasks LEGALLY, that are needed to bring a good ending to the incident.

    That's my .02 at least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartse
    Whys that? The FD knows that no matter what happens they are not resposible i have a stack of realse waivers about a half of a inch thick that have all of my signtures on it....and belive me i wouldn't do it if i didn't have to....super super small town. At best we have 2 brush trucks filled with 2 man crews. That is all we have the man power for, and we have over 10 rigs to fill. The thing that is even scarier (and i say this with no eggo)is that i probly one of the most knowlegable people in our dept. as far as our trucks go. 99.9% of our calls are wildland fires, or on special occasion we have a oilfeild related fire. There are only a handful of structural fires that i have to take part in.
    Wow. Over 10 rigs to fill and your dept. only has about 4 guys respond??? What goes on for you at house fire then? If your town is so small you proabably don't have hydrants, so what about water supply. Scene setup with a dump tank would be a handful then with only the four of you. You need to learn to mutual aide in those cases. In our neck of the woods all our departments call mutual aide if we have a fire where we have to shuttle water. Even if we get there and its small, its always better to half more equipment on the way then having to call for it when its too late.

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    Hartse,

    Is it required for every piece of apparatus to be filled for every call?

    And you have still not answered the question about mutual aid. Cause if you can only muster 4 guys for a call maybe the town over can muster 4-5 guys and another town can get 4-5. Well hey there, thats 12-14 CERTIFIED FF's right there!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer
    Hartse,

    Is it required for every piece of apparatus to be filled for every call?

    And you have still not answered the question about mutual aid. Cause if you can only muster 4 guys for a call maybe the town over can muster 4-5 guys and another town can get 4-5. Well hey there, thats 12-14 CERTIFIED FF's right there!
    Thats generally the outcome I've always seen down home...You call 3 or 4 dept's with 2 or 3 trucks a peice you can get an extra 15-20 guys on scene...Even more....I remember some calls where there been 32 depts on a scene....You want a lot of guys..If you need help CALL FOR IT! If your one of the most "knowledgeable" people on your dept you should at least know that much
    Last edited by ndvfdff33; 06-09-2006 at 07:06 PM.
    If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it considered a hostage situation?

    Ryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer
    I'm pretty sure that this is not a concern around here....I could be wrong though. And this is a different situation than the one mentioned by Hartse, this situation involves a trauma pt. with EMT or medics on scene and a life is at stake here. His situation involves a house fire with qualified FF's on scene that can perform the tasks LEGALLY, that are needed to bring a good ending to the incident.

    That's my .02 at least.
    That is a problem out here, and it does concern breaking the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 36Vollie
    Wow. Over 10 rigs to fill and your dept. only has about 4 guys respond??? What goes on for you at house fire then? If your town is so small you proabably don't have hydrants, so what about water supply. Scene setup with a dump tank would be a handful then with only the four of you. You need to learn to mutual aide in those cases. In our neck of the woods all our departments call mutual aide if we have a fire where we have to shuttle water. Even if we get there and its small, its always better to half more equipment on the way then having to call for it when its too late.
    Closet mutial aid is over 35+ mintues away. And how in the hell are we going to call more than 1 dept if they are more than a hour away. But we are big enough to have hydrants And the answer to some of the eariler posts, There is a singial FF trained on my dept for structrue the rest, all wildlands.

    2 people would be more than enough for a shuttle missisons with a dump tank.
    Last edited by Hartse; 06-09-2006 at 08:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartse
    That is a problem out here, and it does concern breaking the law.

    But structural firefighting by a minor does not?
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    Did i ever say that it was not, no you assumed that. I know that is breaking the law and will take full resposiblity for my actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker
    Did i ever say that it was not, no you assumed that. I know that is breaking the law and will take full resposiblity for my actions.
    Took the words outa my mouth. I however think that Busheater, or what ever his name is was talking the state line problem. But there is not diffrence between what he is talking about and what i am talking about, at both times there is a life at risk. It is really esay for u guys to sit back and try to say the way things should be done from the outside looking in, come down here and then tell me how that we are going to fix this problem. oh wait u don't because i am no longer a minor.
    Last edited by Hartse; 06-10-2006 at 01:45 AM.

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    oh wait u don't because i am no longer a minor.

    Ok so do you have your FF1 cert.? If not then you still cant go in that building....


    As to Bushwhacker's example I just did a quick look up and there seem to be plenty of trauma centers in Montana. And another thing couldnt find any information about Dr. Hammer the medical director. Well you know what the law is the law and I would take the patient to the closest hospital in the correct state according to law which exceptions can be made I'm sure but if they cant then they are going to the one that is 35 minutes away(according to your example) why because if I know I have done everything I possible could do to try and save their life and they die, god forbid then I feel fine because I tried everything possible to save them,. Another thing is you said your willing to lose your license to save someone, ok so what if they dont survive? Well their dead and now you have no license hey great choice. If you tried everything to save them and they died well you know what thats how it is, its called life. I hate to be the one to break the bad news to you but everyone dies at one point. Whether its in their bed at 88 years old or in the back of an ambulance at 25.
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