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    Default Do you do your own RIT???

    We have trained and established RIT in our firehouse. We have gone as far as designating an engine specifically for RIT. The debate and realization now is having enough manpower to make it happen everytime. Our RIT engine is the 2nd engine out taking 5 firefighters away from the initial attack process. There's a great possibility now that the 2nd initial attack engine in could be the 4th apparatus on scene.

    My question to the forum is does your department provide its own RIT or depend on a Mutual Aid Company to provide it? We can provide RIT to our neighbors with no problem, but providing it for ourselves has become an issue.

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    I would say that its O.K. to do your own RIT as long as you have other mutual aid companies coming for support of the rest of the fire operations.

    I do want to point out for suggestion that five people on a RIT team may be a little much. We have done quite a few scenarios and found that three person RIT teams are about the best, definetly no more than four.

    Remember that RIT revolves around the word RAPID and just like carrying too many tools you can have too many people on one team and confusion sets in slowing them down. With three you can carry all the LIGHT tools (irons, rope, lights, spare SCBA, etc.) that you need and still be RAPID! If you need more tools or manpower when you found the downed firefighter you can have them come up later.

    Good luck!
    I would...but no!

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    In a small department I think its best to use MA for the RIT function. Our first due engine and truck have 2 riding positions designated for the "initial RIT" The FAST company is dispatched MA on a working fire.

    Regarding numbers, I like 5 for the reason that the officer has the flexibility to deploy 2 teams and monitor their progress, a team of 3 usually means the officer works, which means no supervision. Just another point of view.

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    Our dept is currently training to provide RIT for other depts. If we need it we have one of our neighboring depts that is on automatic mutual aid provide RIT for us.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
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    Default A Different Perspective

    Let's take the whole manpower and numbers of persons on the RIT out of this equation for a moment.

    By using a mutual aid company as your RIT sector enable you to do several things.
    First and foremost it takes the "attachment" out of decisions. We are always passionate aobut saving one of our own. Most firemen in this business would die for one of their brothers or sisters if it meant saving them. I have no doubt about this. But look at the stress involved in a "MAYDAY". It is someone we know personally and even worse, someone we know better than our own blood family. Mutual aid RIT isn't any less dedicated to saving our own, but the personal attachment isn't there, therefore, bad decisions may be reduced. WE need to face the realistic fact- is our RIT mission recovery or rescue. Unfortunately, this may be the case and a mutual aid company may make the sounder decision here.
    Secondly, and lets all be honest here. Fire companies hate sitting on their thumbs while everyone else is putting out fire. Come on firemen, don't deny it. We have all been there. Everyone working hard at a really bakin' job and you're sitting in Stagin, Rehab, or RIT thinking, ****, I wanna be in the mix of it. This is especially so when the fire is in our own jurisdiction. Put mutual -aid in RIT, they are less likely to "work outside the sector" , even unintentionally. In 13 years I have seen it happen. A compny is assigned to one task and a fellow company needs a hose moved or a ladder placed, whatever, and they say "hey brother" help me tug this hose. YOu take that extra few seconds, help out your brother and then get back to your task. Mutual-aid is less likely to do this too.

    This isn't the gospel of RIT, but it is a perspective you may consider.
    celer et audax

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    I'd have to agree with FDirish's comments, although Nick Sohyda
    over at Rapidintervention.com had and interesting article a month or two ago about initail RIT with emphsis on "RAPID", you could use an internal team for RIT unitl your mutual aid RIT team arrives, this gives you coverage during the response time of your designated RIT team.

    My personal opinion is use a mutual aid department and pick one becuase they have their sh1t together, don't fall victim to the buddy buddy syndrome, you call us, we'll call you, but neither of us really have a clue.....

    I also wanted to question/comment on Baker FF/PM comment. I agree 5 for an initail entry team may be a little heavy, but with a 5 mane crew that leave 1 team memeber to respond to the IC, if there is a mayday he needs to be running the Rescue. I recently took Crawford's RICE class and we utilized crews of 4; 1 team leader (carried tool or camera), 2 members (carrying pack, tool) 1 member who was the rope guy. During the exercises this worked out very well.

    So when you say RIT team, are you talking about an "entry team" or is your normal RIT response 3 guys?
    Brian Jazudek
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    We utilize 5 man RIT. 1 guy with the IC the whole time. 3 guys making the entry/search/rescue. Last guy stays at the entrance point with the other end of the rope that is brought in by the 3 man team. Our RIT is a mutual aid company, until they arrive we go by the 2 in 2 out rule. RIT is dispatched simultaneously on structure fires (confirmed/reported) and special called on other types of calls.

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    Small or large companies should use MA for the RIT team. The one main reason for why I say this is because of the emotional factor involved. If a MAYDAY is called the responding company knows that it is one of there own and tunnel vision may occur. With having a MA RIT there is less of a chance of that emotional factor involved and the team is more focused on the task at hand rather then worrying about who it is they are going in for. I am also in agreence on the 5 man RIT team. Great number to work with and if you have a good officer it makes it all the better. Stay safe and hope this helped a little bit.

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    I appreciate everyones input on this subject. The emotional factor is a good factor. We have trained extensively and run a 5 man RIT with one in command and one as a runner for equipment. This seems to work well.

    As I stated in my original post I'm worried about how this is effecting our initial response. For Mutual Aid our run order is fine, but taking away that 2nd engine in on our own calls is a real concern of mine.

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    Just my two cents worth, but is seems to me if you have a working fire you want the resources of that second engine in the firefight. As others have said, follow 2 in 2 out until your MA RIT company arrives. I think that you might cause a greater safety problem by holding that second engine company as a RIT instead of using them to lay lines and back up the first crew. The quicker you can get your attack set up, the better off you are. The best way to solve the problem and get everyone home safely is to put the fire out as quickly and as safely as possible, and that takes manpower.
    Chris Minick, P.E., Firefighter II
    Structures Specialist, MD-TF 1

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    Default RIT

    I belong to a all volunteer department and we are just starting using the Rapid Intervention Team.We bought a RIT bag with a bottle,extra facepeace,10 feet of hose for the quickfill connection,flashlight,100 feet of lifesafety rope witha carabiner,and srobelight on the outside.We run mutual aide calls on all housefires,but are company that we run with there members live in a rural area so there response time's are not as good.About 10 of are guys recently had the firefighter survial/save your own class given by Maryland fire and rescue inst. and that really shows the need for a RIT Team.Alot of are older guys thinks it's stupid to have something like this,but look out for the one's that don't need anymore training.


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    We use MA from surrounding towns. But MICU (2 members) on still for working fire will provide RIT until MA co. arrive.

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    i kinda agree with the emotional factor. the mutual aid dept we use extensively, we work with them so much that if it's one of our's or even one of their's then the emotional factor will still be there.

    also after the RIT crew sets up their tools, IC can be used for other tasks just as long as they can stop what they are doing to preform a rescue. i do not really agree with it and hopefully will never have to do it. i can see this maybe working with the larger RIT teams with like 5 members or more.
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    My department has been utlizing out own Rit for about one year now. Personally I do not agree with having an in house team, the freelancing and emotional issues are too great. Currently all of the equipment is on our 4th due engine and the IC decides which members will be be the Rit for that call. Usually four members are asigned to the task of Rit.
    My question is this. Is there really a hard set rule as to the type of apparatus used for the Rit? I've heard everything from using a engine to a ladder to a rescue truck. Does anybody have a answer to this?

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    It shouldn't really matter what type of vehicle you use, so long as it can transport your team and any equipment that may need to preform a Firefighter rescue.
    Brian Jazudek
    Moon Run Fire - Rescue
    Assistant Chief/Training Officer
    http://www.moonrunvfd.org

    "People ask me, why do you do it man? They don't understand, it's about the men next to you. That's all it is."

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    Originally posted by firerabbi

    My question is this. Is there really a hard set rule as to the type of apparatus used for the Rit? I've heard everything from using a engine to a ladder to a rescue truck. Does anybody have a answer to this?
    There probably is no hard fast "rule" or answer to your question. However, many officers are caught up in the idea of a RIT team and forget the key to such a crew: "RAPID". Its easy to become complacent with the understanding that a mutual aid department is responding as the designated RIT, but how quickly are they going to get there? So long the RIT team arrives before that first attack crew enters the structure they are being used to their full potential. But how often do you see the 3rd, 4th, or even 5th peice arriving as RIT? Are they really the "RIT" team in this situation? Sure dispatch may have them assigned as such, but what if something goes bad early as it frequently does? I can guarantee that every available firefighter on that scene will become an impromptu RIT team should something go bad.

    Regardless how they get there, whether its by Rescue, Truck, Pumper, or pick-up, they need to be there very early in the game. We've all heard "IC to dispatch, RIT is committed to fireground ops, send me another". Big bad mistake. RIT needs to get there early and stay commited unless relieved directly by another RIT crew.

    Unfortunately one of my "brothers" was in dire need of a RIT crew a couple years back. He was on the first engine and ended up in bad situation with his crew. If it wasn't for the next in piece, he probably wouldn't have survived. Was that second crew a RIT? No. Did they act like one? Hell yes and the key to it all was that they were present on scene and not still responding!

    Just make sure your RIT gets there early. Consider assigning the second in piece to act as RIT until the assigned crew arrives. And if you really want to get conservative, your first piece is RIT and helps throw ladders, throw hose, or whatever before that second crew goes in the door...
    "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply beacuse it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachs and elders. Do not belive in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conductive to the good and beneift of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

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    We will start an engine from the second alarm district to be used as RIT. This program has worked really well, as it keeps from loosing the truck company on RIT. We all know you have to have the truckies on fire. LOL..Anyway, if you do have the available personnel to cover it from your own station, then by all means, keep that second alarm company available, you never know when you may need it.
    Capt. James Collier
    McMahan Fire Rescue
    State Fire Rescue Area 6

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    Lightbulb

    We use MA for RIT for most of the same reasons listed above. The emotional detachment, etc.
    We do use only our heavy rescue for RIT to other districts cause it really makes not much sense to commit an ETA to the scene and have the crew of 3, or 4(plus officer by the way) jump out with a bunch of tools, and run away leaving it in the street. Rescues got everything we're gonna need, or at least everything we've thought of so far.
    This can be especially important as we are all volunteer here, and are very dependant on MA in daytime due to manpower considerations.

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    Most departments around here, if they call for a RIT team, realy on mutual aid. Cincinnati however dispatches, for now, an extra engine as the RIT team on all confirmed fires, confirmed by the first companies on the scene, so there you run into the "problem" of not having a RIT team on scene at the start of the incident. I know of some departments in the county that run mutual aid into the adjoining county, dispatched in that county as the fast team, with the fire companies, but if they dont catch that dispatch on the portable pager that they have in their station, then they have to wait for their county to dispatch them. That county is the only one I know of around here that dispatches a RIT, or FAST team as they call it, along with the rest of the first alarm companies, without confirmation of a fire.

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    just a question about RIT... we dont persay utilize a RIT team here. I am however in the process now of trying to get something rolling on this since I consider this a dire safety need on a scene. We have one chief that will call for another company to utilize as a RIT team but I guess my question is to some of you that have had one in place is this...what kind of training are your personnel qualified to do that makes them a RIT team?? I mean all our guys are a one firefighters and such and we do some fairly intense training but it just seems to me that not just any responding company would qualify as a RIT team without a more in depth training in rescue, ropes, collapses and such. just my opinion and like I said earlier I am by far even close to being any kind of an expert on the subject or in no way trying to shoot down anyone else's program but just curious in this matter.. I have been hazmat tech and instructor for 15 years and maybe this mindset has me thinking in this manner which could be all wrong as is required...

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    When I fist joined the dept two years ago we did some RIT training. Since then we have not really done any. Until a couple of months ago we did not hear of it until out of the blue we got called as a RIT team. We do not have a set RIT team so we went out there with the training we had in the past and did what had to be done. Fourtunatly they did not need us, but if they did we were ready. It seems to be that they tend and us also if needed to call a company outside of the immediate area. I guess it is better to have someone fresh and ready to look in case of the worse then your own dept. It seems to work out good, we scrath their backs and they scratch ours.

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    I would only use mutual aid companies for RIT if they have been TRAINED in RIT. There are still a TON of FD's that think having 3 guys standing outside (like 2-in/2-out) qualifies as RIT. RIT involves a ton of training and a change in mindset. If the MA companies haven't been trained, you are shortchanging yourself by using them to possible save your troops.

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    by theory RIT members should be the most experienced personnel on the dept. our dept is still in RIT training for over a year now. i haven't been happy with the level of training yet and we've had a lot of turn over in personnel. we train on everything from SCBA change over to searching and removing debris. we attempt to train monthly if possible. all i can say is train, train, train constantly. like other's keep saying, no one is going to save us but ourselves.
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    We are a small dept. and all we use is the two in two out rule, because of the manpower problem. Mutual aid for us is the nearest volunteer dept. and they are not reliable during the daytime.
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    Originally posted by fyrgrunt
    We are a small dept. and all we use is the two in two out rule, because of the manpower problem. Mutual aid for us is the nearest volunteer dept. and they are not reliable during the daytime.
    No offense, but VFD's and smaller FD's need the RIT more than 2in/2out at least as much, if not more than, career FD's. Most small FD's don't get the run volume to keep really proficient at ICS, accountability, fire tactics, situational awareness, etc. If your nearest MA company is not reliable, then talk to the nearest one that IS reliable. You're cheating yourself when you don't have a RIT.

    Remember...RIT is the Firefighter's 9-1-1 (a paraphrase from BC R. Hoff, Chicago FD)

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