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  1. #1
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    Question Ventilation and Hose Lines

    I was discussing the use of the high rise pack yesterday and a discussion came up that I don't agree with. I am looking for a consensus from the wise. I was told that one of the intended purpose for a high rise pack was for the roof man to take to the roof and put it into place by droping a section to the ground to be attached to the apparatus and charged before ventilating. The reason give to me for this was that "you must have a hose line in place when ventilating." I responded that I agreed that a hose line needed to be in place, BUT this did not mean on the roof. I said that the hose line should be put in place from the interior by the engine crew, this was not the responsibility of the roof man. Based on this discussion I would like some input as to what is right.
    Thanks,
    Jon


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber Halligan84's Avatar
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    Default

    I think they are seriously confused!.. Your example of the line being in place to attack the fire is correct. If you take the time to set up a handline before opening a roof, you'll be all day. If you NEED a handline to complete the vent, ya maybe oughta not be there.

  3. #3
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    When vertically venting, if you vent directly over the fire there is no need to have a hoseline there. If you are venting horizontally, you need a hose line in place if you are venting away from the fire. If you are venting in close proximity to the fire then a hoseline is not always necessary. Good idea to coordinate attack and ventilation though.
    "I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."

    Edward F. Croker
    Chief 1899-1911
    Fire Dept. City of New York

    HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.

  4. #4
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    Default

    I'm with the consensus also. I have never taken a line to a roof with me unless it was to be used on another structure or roof. I do remember reading an article or section of a book that stated they advocated taking a line to the roof for protection, but I've never seen it or done it myself. Get up there, do what your suppose to do and get off. The only thing we use our high rise pack for, other then high rise operations, is for extended lays and other stand-pipe operations. In fact in the classes/drills I've taught over the past few years, I've started calling them more stand-pipe or extended lay packs to get new firefighters and officers to think of using them more.

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    The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

  5. #5
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    Never heard of having a line on the roof while venting either. Even if you did, and assuming you were going to use it in the vent hole, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of having that vent hole to begin with? You vent to allow the gasses, smoke, heat, etc to escape the structure. By using the vent hole as an access hole for water, this would not be acomplished.

    The reason we use high rise packs (as I imagine most deptartments do) is for just that, high rise buildings. While the engine hooks into the stand pipe system, a crew brings the high rise pack to the floor below the fire (when circumstances permit), hooks into the stand pipe and goes up the stairs to the fire floor to attack the fire.

    Our high rise packs consist of 200' of 1 3/4 inch hose, knob, spanners and adapter (1 1/2" x 2 1/2").
    Last edited by SFDchief; 06-18-2002 at 06:48 PM.

  6. #6
    Member FDirish's Avatar
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    Default Strange but true stories......

    I have to go with my peers on this one. In 13 years I have never seen a roof vent team with a handline up there unless they were providing some other type of roof work. Besides, the last hing I want to wait for while on the roof of a house is for someone to hook up a hose line for us. I can see it now
    Interior to Command, we need ventilation, she's rolling on us! Command to Roof, status report
    Roof to Command, we are holding on ventilation waiting for a hoseline
    Command to Interior, uhhh, your gonna have to hang on a bit. The roof team needs a hoseline for protection before they vent.

    Like I said, another weird but true story from the fire service!
    celer et audax

  7. #7
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    The only reason i can think of having a hoseline would be to protect yourself. But you should be in proper position and shouldn't be in line with the fire when you ventilate. You wouldn't want to attack the fire from the roof with interior crews inside that is for sure. Vertical ventilation is a dangerous task and should be done quickly and with the minimum amount of firefighters on the roof. I have never taken a line to the roof and have never trained that way. You would think if you are suppose to take a line with you they would have taught you this in the fire academy.
    I PROVIDE A NAMELESS FACELESS SERVICE TO A COMMUNITY THAT RARELY KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY NEED ME IF I AM CALLED FROM A SOUND SLEEP TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE TRYING TO SAVE THE PROPERTY OR LIFE OF SOMEONE I DO NOT KNOW I WILL DO SO WITHOUT REGRET
    From the book "The Heart Behind The Hero" from Jon Mc Duffie in memory of Joe Dupee LAFD

  8. #8
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    Default THEN WHAT?

    Does the roof team then squirt water into the hole to stop the fire from coming out?

    whoa.....

    I would have to agree with everyone here. Standpipe pack inside.
    Roof open with no water in place. By the time we had enuf guys on scene to drag another to the roof and vent.....venting wouldn't be an issue!

    Dave

  9. #9
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    Guess its a consensus then. Just keep in mind that high rise packs are for more then just high rises, whenever you may need an extended lay, they are handy. Or if you are doing any sort of standpipe operation regardless if its a high rise or not. We have several large single story malls that have standpipes in the common areas because of the square footage and the lenght from entrance/exits.

  10. #10
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    Question

    This would actually be for after the vent hole was made but in an area with exposure problems, would it work to use the hose line on fog over the vent hole(not in it) to possibly cool embers escaping from the vent? I had heard of this in a class but not since, just wondering.

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