View Poll Results: Could your Rescue department handle a call like this one?

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  • Yes

    14 42.42%
  • No

    11 33.33%
  • Don't know

    5 15.15%
  • I wish I'd called in sick on this day!

    3 9.09%
  1. #1
    FIGJAM
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    Cool The "Ultimate" What-Would-You-Do???

    Roll up,roll up! Come one, come all!

    Is this the "Ultimate" what would you do challenge?

    Are you up for it?

    Sorry about the image quality...


    What would you do, now? Let's assume that there was someone in the red truck....
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    Luke

  2. #2
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    Wink Another angle...

    hehehe!
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    Luke

  3. #3
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    Well, the passengers side is pretty well out.

    Might need some mean wheel chocks though.

    Afterwards, advise owner his truck has a flat, everything.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  4. #4
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    Sometimes the only plan is too shift to reverse.

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    Smile

    Gee, where to start? I am sure somebody out there is going to insist on deflating those tires to assure "rock-solid" stability. OOPS! Did I say that out loud? Got to love you technophiliacs.

  6. #6
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    77,

    Do we deflate the tires on the pickup or the dump truck?


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    Lightbulb

    I think if we took the air from the dump truck tires, it would bring the frame closer to the ground and require less lumber to do the cribbing! The again, the tow truck driver might get a little peeved, as well as the police reconstruction experts.

  8. #8
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    Default Yikes.

    The red truck looks pretty well stabilized.
    The dump truck may need scaffolding to stabilize, never mind a box crib.

    Anyway in all seriousness:

    As for extrication, assuming someone is still alive in there, let's have the helicopter on scene with blades turning when we commence extrication. Anyone pinned in that mess is going to go downhill pretty fast once we get them out.

    Might be the only option, what was said earlier about reversing the dump truck. Then cut the roof off, lift the dash, and go, as simple as that sounds.

    So lutan, do you know if there was there someone in there or not?

    --j.

  9. #9
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    Apparantly the driver of the tipper had stopped for some lunch. The red pick up parked there, in the drivers blind spot. (Is there anywhere on this thing that isn't a blind spot?!)

    The driver finished lunch, started the tipper and drove forward to return to work- whammo! One very squashed pick up, with no one in it....

    Anyone know the weight of these big suckers empty and also full?
    Luke

  10. #10
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    from memory 55 tons empty, 85 tons per load at least. They use them down country at our Gold Mine.

  11. #11
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    Default Gotta go with Jay on this one.

    Unless there is a heavy duty crane right there, and a log transport truck as well, that is the only practical way of going, I think. The wheels on those monster dumpers are like 13 feet tall. That means you are going to have to box crib about 8-9 feet. Plus, lifting the #$#@% dump truck to begin with. One of the front end loaders they load them with could probably do the job, but too great a chance of the truck slipping and dropping back down. You would probably want a four foot block to crib the rear wheels with. Nah, for patient care, back it off and then run in with the jaws. And stay clear when he backs off of it to make sure you have a rig when he parks it again.
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  12. #12
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    Well, to answer the last question first: this is only a semi-educated guess mind you, but this vehicle would be in the 70 to 100 ton hauler. We use them mostly in Alberta hauling tar sand around the oil fields out that way. A 70 ton is small enough (?) to fit on most highways, but the 100's require speical permitting to move them around public roads.

    Extrication: well, inspite of the fact that we don't like doing it, I think unless there is a solid reason why not, it would appear that the best thing to do would be to back the hauler off the red truck.

    I have walked around one of these (it was a 50tonner) and I had absolutely no trouble walking under the axels, there is about 6 feet plus, depending on the classification. If cribbing was required, I am thinking that a heavy lift crane might the way to go. If you have the 70 tonner, then you will have the crane available, you would need it for trying to tow that bloody thing out if it got stuck. Just put enough lift on the hauler to prevent it from moving as best you can. Lift would have to be effected, if possible around the main axel of the front wheel, that is on top of the red truck to try to keep the front wheel from "sagging" when metal removal from the red truck starts to happen.

    Patient removal I think would have to come from the "driver's side". (I am assuming(?) that since Lutan delivered the photo, this happened in the Land of Auz - right hand drive.) Remove the driver's door, and with any luck, the Pt is not pinned inside. If he is, a dash roll may work...???

    There better be an emergency evac helo, sitting on the pad waiting for the pt, cuz even if he isn't badly hurt physically, he will be in some real deep shock for the near miss. If it was me in there, I would probably end up on the Loony Bin for a while.... oh wait, I think I am there already - oh well.

    By the way, I had to vote "NO" on this one. We don't have the equipment to support a vehicle of that magnitude. For us, the only real way to deal with this problem would likely to roll the hauler off the red truck first. I will check with the higher powers on this one, cuz it is an interesting question.
    Last edited by MalahatTwo7; 06-15-2002 at 03:36 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Lutan,do I need a plan B for this one too?Now where did I put that super chinook?T.C.

  14. #14
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    I would have to say back the dump truck off as well. However, if for whatever reason that was impossible and there was no crane available, it might be possible to crib the hauler, then deflate that tire pinning the truck and cut it away. Not the ideal way to go about it I suppose, but there isn't a whole lot of option here. Of course, you would need a lumber mill nearby to supply that kind of cribbing

  15. #15
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    A lot of folks are talking about finding enough cribbing or a heavy lift crane. Also latigo mentioned using one (or more) of the front end loaders to lift the truck (not a bad idea, but I'd use some chain/slings along with the loaders to help minimize slipping)


    One possible option that I haven't seen addresses (directly) is - almost any place that runs these things should have some way of working on them (i.e. changing a wheel) OR there would have to be a service company (CAT dealer ?) that has the equipment to lift / haul one of these. So when you start looking for resources - don't forget to include the folks who repair/maintain these huge beasts.

    Lacking any available means to lift the truck - I would also Opt to back it off the small truck.
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    You are correct about facilities that operate this type of machinery having equipment to work on them, N2DFire. Id start with the guys in the shop and find out what type of equipment they use to change the tires. If the Discovery Channel is to be believed, they use modified front-end loaders to change the wheels, and I think (?) that the tire alone weighs 1000 pounds.

    I do like the idea of stabilizing the dump truck with front end loaders, deflating the tire and cutting it away.

    Im not a collapse rescue guy, but I wonder if this problem might better be solved by approaching it from a collapse rescue type of thinking? Removing large and heavy pieces of concrete and such off of cars must be fairly common in places with earthquakes where Urban SAR is more common.
    Bryan Beall
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    Sometimes it might be better to leave well enough alone.

    Neither truck is going anwywhere. If the driver's pinned (assuming right-side driver's seat, otherwise he's already toast and you've got all kinds of time to think about how to get him out) take the door off and go from there. Could prove to be that easy. The dash might be on top of him, but on the right side of the vehicle the dumptruck isn't imposing a lot of weight, so jack it, roll it, whatever.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: The "Ultimate" What-Would-You-Do???

    What would you do, now? [/B]
    Phone Call: "Hey Bubba! You gotta come see this! This thing's bigger than Billy Bob's pickup."
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  19. #19
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    "Verdugo Engine 101 respond Squad 102 to this incident Extrication will be needed"

    Well I would see if there is a crane that could possibly lift that thing off the truck
    Then try to cut away the roof and try to get acsess to the driver

  20. #20
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    Back to basics!Projected weight of the "dump truck" is between 70-100 ton.You've got to move the RF axle.One quarter(25%)of 100 ton is?Correct grasshopper, twenty five ton.A Holmes 750 tow truck (old technology)has a rating of;you guessed it twenty five ton.In heavy vehicle rescue you need to think in percents.As in what percentage of this load do I/we ACTUALLY NEED TO MESS WITH.In this case,the right front tire,axle and associated hardware.T.C.

  21. #21
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    I'm going to go with CollegeBuff on this one. The drivers window is not broken, the roof above the drivers door is not deformed. My guess, lift the door handle and it might open. Take the door off if needed, dash lift as best you can if needed, pray there is no passenger.

    Also have to vote no, we do not have the equipment to handle a call like this unless we get lucky and there is no passenger. Fortunately, don't have trucks quite this big at the shore.

  22. #22
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    Arrow

    Back the MOVER away from the truck (far away) and get another chock for it), safety check for fuel leaks (etc.), 4 point stabilization on the truck, full top removal, dash roll (or lift), disentangle (feet and or left arm),remove to LZ (landing zone), airlift to trauma center.
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  23. #23
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    I've been watching this forum before replying just to see what everyone comes up with. I think the biggest problem I see is that people look at the BIG picture and get overwhelmed when it comes to rescue.

    I'm gonna throw a huge pat on the back to Rescue 101, N2DFIRE and College Buff- they've analysed the pictures and thought about the process.

    Let's look at the scene and think about a few things:
    a) How much weight is actually on the red pick up?

    b) Only part of the yellow tipper is on top of the red pick up

    c) Dependant on which side of the vehicle the driver is trapped on, will definitely dictate the extrication (U.S. vs Canadian vs Australian.)

    Food for thought:
    * Let's isolate the power to the yellow tipper first;
    * Let's chock the wheels of the yellow tipper to prevent accidental rolling or other forms of movement;
    * Let's stabilise the remainder of the red pick up as best as possible;
    * Don't forget our inner and outer surveys for hazards and rectify as required;
    * Let's remove what glass we can;
    * Let's open up the red pick up and see the extent of the entrapment.

    Work it from there....

    How many people seriously beleive that reversing the truck back is really an option? I would have hoped- NONE! (Unless as a last resort.) Think about the amount of movement to the red pick up, think about the movement to the casualty, think about what the casualty would go through hearing that truck start up and begin reversing....

    And "YES" 101- you need a Plan B!
    Luke

  24. #24
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    Question

    Further to my last post, why is that on a previous forum I raised titled, "Another What Would You Do?", lot's and lot's of people had a really good go at attempting an extrication of an 80 tonne truck off a car, and yet this one, alot of people are backing away saying no way- we can't do this?

    Are we overwhelmed by the shear size of the truck?

    Last time I checked, 80 tonne is 80 tonne regardless of colour and size.......
    Luke

  25. #25
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    Thanks Lutan.

    I will pass that thought on to my Mother in law.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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