scenario 1....Pull up to a commercial, first engine pulls a 2 1/2, and you're the boss on the second engine....you pull a backup line, what do you pull?
Scen 2...Same as one, only you are second engine at a well involved residential fire...
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Thread: What's your backup line?
06-17-2002, 12:22 AM #1
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
What's your backup line?
06-17-2002, 09:19 AM #2
Most times, if I am pulling 2 1/2" to start, I am following with more 2 1/2". Usually, on scene IC will start calling for smaller lines when the 2 1/2" aren't needed anymore.
06-17-2002, 10:29 AM #3
Depends on what was happening with the first line. The OG for a back up line is the same or larger to the location of the first line. It can be redeployed from there as necessary. There may be circumstances when you go larger or smaller depending on the first engines report and progress. For instance in the case of the commercial with the 2 1/2 in service, they may be making good progress and need that line to the 2nd floor to check for extension or support a search. In that case 1 3/4 would probably get used
06-18-2002, 09:59 AM #4
- Join Date
- Sep 2001
- No. Providence R.I. : Land of the "How ya doins"
Same as the first UNLESS someone dropped the ball and stretched a smaller line on a fire that needed big water, then pull a bigger line to backup."I have no ambition in this world but one, and that is to be a fireman. The position may, in the eyes of some, appear to be a lowly one; but we know the work which a fireman has to do believe that his is a noble calling."
Edward F. Croker
Fire Dept. City of New York
HOOK N' CAN of the I.A.C.O.J.
06-19-2002, 01:35 AM #5
- Join Date
- Apr 2001
Scenario #1 ,commercial bldg. 2 1/2.
Scenario #2 ,residential bldg. Drawing from my own experience
1 3/4 with solid stream , proper pressure knocks down a lot
of fire. 1 3/4 gives more mobilty in making turns and going
from room to room and floor to floor .
06-19-2002, 06:08 PM #6
In both situations there may be SOPs that dictate the second line in is the same or bigger than the first....however....
In my opinion a 'back-up' line is laid with a specific purpose in mind - to 'protect the exit route for those manning the first line or possibly for firefighters searching without a line for occupants'. In this case I would go for speed over flow - the 1 3/4" (45mm) would be my line of choice here (both cases) as it is faster to advance in and offers a good firefighting flow - just make sure there is a combo nozzle attached
06-20-2002, 03:44 AM #7
- Join Date
- May 2000
- Wheaton IL
Why do we have a backup line? As a backup to the first line for all of those what if situations.
If you need a 2.5" to extinguish the fire what will the 1.75 do if the 2.5 blows?
If that 1st 2.5 just wasn't enough the line that you want working with the 1st is another 2.5.
You should use the same size or larger for a backup line. If you want a line for anything else on the fireground then pull what is appropriate.
06-20-2002, 04:55 AM #8
Remember also.....the 'back-up' line is generally laid outside the structure, at the entry point in use, during those vital first minutes following arrival. This line may or may not follow an initial hoseline crew in. In Sweden they do advance this line and attempt to keep within a length behind of the advanced attack crew. However, most lines are laid waiting at the exterior. It should be a line to complement the manpower available on scene - larger lines require greater manpower to advance quickly.
If I was on that 'first-in' attack line I would want to be sure that if that 'what-if' situation occurred and my crew were in trouble - the 'back-up' should be following us in with a priority of 'speed' over 'flow'. The 45mm hoseline is far more versatile, easier to advance and offers adequate flows for protecting the advance line. Don't forget - you will bring with you a lot of water to add to the line already flowing....but speed is the essential thing. Everytime I have ever seen a back-up line run in to assist a crew in 'trouble' the 45mm line has been effective in enabling them to 'retreat or recover'.
If the fire is so bad that it is advancing beyond the initial line in place then yes - bring in an equal or bigger line - but that 'back-up' is there in emergencies much quicker if it is a lighter line, particularly where manpower is restricted.
06-30-2002, 12:27 PM #9
Backup lines should be at least the same size as the intial attack line, preferably larger...you don't go fighting a fire with a squirt gun. When the scat hits the fan, you want to be able to wash it down!"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
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