1. #26
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    My apologies to you VAVolFF for sounding off in my previous post before all the information was provided. bfpd36 has some excellent ideas and I think you should try them out before you go ahead with your other idea. Failing that, then do what you have to. Good luck!
    Last edited by Cyra6182; 06-19-2002 at 07:29 PM.

  2. #27
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    It's is hard for me to believe that there are no written rules or policies. And after 3 years in the department you don't know the rules. In some departments the rules and poicies where posted on the wall of the station, in the department I belong to now, they were given to each member when they first joined and revised as needed with revisions posted and give to each member.

    All the suggestions that have been made are good ones... Talking is the best way to solve the solution. Trying to oust the chief could back fire in more than one way, getting a chief that is harder and makes more rules, or him finding out about it and the the other 30 members that don't usually vote show up to keep him in office.

    I been in your situation but worse, I was the chief's son... It's great that you show up do your duties and have fun, but there has to be more behind the conflict than you are telling or behind the chiefs decisions...

    The departments I belong to now and before - no one was allowed in the bays or on the ramps for that matter... Biggest reason blocking trucks... horse Play of anykind was forbidden.. Now playing basketball, wiffleball, baseball, etc, was acceptable.

    To stop hanging out and making calls because you are upset with the rules, is pretty drastic, it only hurts you and the community.. No one here will no the whole story, because we haven't heard from the chief and his reason behind his decisions...

    The chief is responsible for the whole department, example on department I belonged to after a week long carnival fund raiser at 2:00 in the morning rang the fire siren and blew air horns in cellibration of a sucessful fund raiser. The neighbors complained, the chief not presented was fined $1000 and the department was fined $2500.

    It isn't easy being the young gun on the block, but your time will come one day and the youngesters in the department will get on your nerves too, and the biggest thing they will use against you is if you did it why can't we...

    So talk to the chief, bring it up at a meeting, sometimes it boils down to miscommunication or the way you said something in your response...

    By ousting the chief not only can you hurt the department, it can split a department and hurt the public because less personnel to respond to calls... Also hard to recruit new members when they hear that the members ousted a chief because they didn't like the rules..

    God will help you through these times and give you the correct path to follow if you ask him...

    Good luck and God Bless..
    Last edited by LouisianaMedic; 06-19-2002 at 06:24 PM.

  3. #28
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    Originally posted by VAVolFF
    NCRSQ751 -
    When I am at the Firehouse, I like to have fun (again though, while on a call, its all business). Once the fun disappears, I disappear as well.
    Several people have already asked, and I'll do it again... What is this "fun" you are having?

    All guys? Girls there? Alcohol?
    Wrestling?
    The above is MY OPINION only and not that of anyone else. I am not representing any organization in making a post here!!!!

  4. #29
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    I am kind of familiar with this situation because I just experienced it this week. The Maryland State Firemans Association hold the annual convention in Ocean City every year and it is basically a time for the younger guys to go hoop it up for a few days and the older ones to go relax and attend meetings and seminars or things of the like(Some of the older ones will hoop it up as well as the younger attending meetings) We party into the night. Traditionally, my department rents the entire top floor of a hotel and sends us down for the week. We usually load up coolers with all the beer we can and have a good time. One of our members in particular this year was trying to damper us all though by complaining the entire week about everything we did. From drinking all night, to being loud all the way up to who drove the Engine in the Parade! Thos guy is on our board of directors and can possibly stir enough crap to destroy a tradition that has been carried by my department since 1936. I guess its a culture clash or maybe its just plain animosity that he cannot party like we can because he chose to bring his wife who is pretty laid back and doesnt like to party (however she does not complain) All I know is that it ruined a good time for all of us because everytime we did anything that HE didnt like, he wrote it down and threatened to file complaints. All I know is that sometimes the older members need to realize that the younger crowd today is different and likes different things. The old days of yore are gone and its time to let us live our lives and run our departments like they should be in this day and age, and not back when Horses pulled the steamers!
    You Waste your time, YOUR LINE IS MINE!

  5. #30
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    [ All I know is that sometimes the older members need to realize that the younger crowd today is different and likes different things. The old days of yore are gone and its time to let us live our lives and run our departments like they should be in this day and age, and not back when Horses pulled the steamers! [/B][/QUOTE]

    Mabey it is time for the younger one to realize that they represent the department 24 hours a day no matter where they are at. Getting drunk and parting when you are at conventions representing the department is unprofessional. You rent the department as the deparment and the motel knows this if you get loud and people complain it makes the whole department look bad. Maybe it is time for the younger crowd to grow up and take responsibility fir their actions. The things i do represent me and the department i work for. If i do not act professional at all times i will be fired on the spot. Acting unprofessional has zero tolerance and shouldn't be tolerated on my department. The city's code of conduct clearly states these things. Around here firefighters get intoclubs free if they have their badges but it doesn't look good to me to let someone know i am a firefighter and the department i work for and then get drunk and loud. You are right that times are changing and the chiefs see this change. It is a time where being unprofessional is not tolerated. Where the image of the departmnet is crutial. It is a time where budgets are getting cut and it is harder to get equpiment and personell. It is hard for the chief to get more firefighters when the ones he has are miss representing the city and the department. Times have changed all right hope you make it through the change as a firefighter paid or volunteer.
    I PROVIDE A NAMELESS FACELESS SERVICE TO A COMMUNITY THAT RARELY KNOWS HOW MUCH THEY NEED ME IF I AM CALLED FROM A SOUND SLEEP TO SACRIFICE MY LIFE TRYING TO SAVE THE PROPERTY OR LIFE OF SOMEONE I DO NOT KNOW I WILL DO SO WITHOUT REGRET
    From the book "The Heart Behind The Hero" from Jon Mc Duffie in memory of Joe Dupee LAFD

  6. #31
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    Geez,how can you improve on that post?Well I'll try.Most of the problems we have with society today can be traced to one thing,LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY.If everyone had to be accountable for their actions,we'd have less problems than we do.The members of the IACOJ know this,the PUPS;WELLL go figure.T.C.

  7. #32
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    360.....LOL...I just used that yesterday...3 years on and 60 years of experience/knowledge!!!

    Sounds just like my old department in Virginia! Some things never change.

    The young folks need to realize that the fire station is not a CLUB HOUSE and SOCIAL Club. That is what got me on the bad side of the young ones.. I did not put up with the BS and they resented me for it.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  8. #33
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    First off, I agree that the Fire House is NOT a Place for you and your buddies to be "playing" around. This is a place where everybody in the community looks for the good in people, and here you are screwing around. Jokes are one thing but when it gets physical it is a totally different story. Nobody likes a wise-butt in the station, and really not one who was just a baby or not even born when they started fighting the beast.

    I also agree that you should look at what you have felt in the past about your current chief, did you vote for him? If so, live by his rules, if not vote him out. I think that voting for the officer posts in the department are nothing but a popularity contest. The one who makes most everybody else happy wins, but that person could also be the one who gets you killed.

    We joke with one another at my department, but horseplay, is unacceptable, peroid.

    Take care of your brothers and sisters, treat them with respect, as they are the ones who will save you when your stuff is on the line.

  9. #34
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    I cannot believe that someone would get angry at a chief because they are breaking a rule. We have a similar rule and we can get into a load of trouble for fooling around especially if we are in the public eye. I think that although rules are strict, its nice to know the public respects you and its even better when they come down to the station and write in later saying how professional our dept. is. Maybe its just me but i feel that you should respect the senior FF's especially the chief. I can't stand to see young FF's think they know everything. 3/60 ech...in my FF1 class i was the know-it-all and i thought i knew how to do alot of things perfectly and it turns out that in real life a task that you practiced a million times isn't as easy when *it hits the fan.

  10. #35
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    VaVol....I got to know at least what part of Virginia you are from?
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  11. #36
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    Bump....

    I hav got to know where the firefighter in Virginia is from....
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  12. #37
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    Well, I have been watching this thread for a while, trying to figure out how I feel on the issue. I have to agree with those of you who said that the firehouse isn't a "clubhouse." Think of it this way: it's your Job. So technically you are "at work" when you are there. I used to work at a law firm...when there was a time when I was low on stuff to do, it didn't mean that I was gonna start a game of Twister or something with the rest of my co-workers. I know, I know--this scenario is very different. But I believe the bottom line is the same. Perhaps your chief feels that the ones who "horse around" are not taking the job seriously enough. Or, as a lot of people have already mentioned, he could just be worried about liability issues. I realize that, in this line of work, stress relief is a much-needed thing. All I am saying is that maybe you guys could hang out somewhere else when you feel like horsing around. Not bashing you or anything, just trying to add my perspective in hope that it helps.
    Good Luck
    Jen, EMT-B
    "I got lost in thought...it was unfamiliar territory."
    "I love mankind--it's people I can't stand" --Linus

  13. #38
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    Well...as I said before...My old volunteer department was experiencing similar things...

    Drinking and partying on the property to the rear of the station and "girlfriends" in and out at all hours of the evening and night.

    Some of us with a bit of common sense and maturity took steps to make some behavior modification a requirement and you would have thought that we had dropped an atom bomb. The "kids" were insulted and they became outraged that we put our foot down to stop it. To me..that told me their true colors. They were not there to serve the public....They were there to drink and try an impress the women with their status as a firefighter. It was a social club plain and simple. Now I understand that it is very different there.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  14. #39
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    Listen to me Sonny.

    I died in 5 World Wars so you can be here today.

    And I walked for 5 miles in the snow, in shorts, with no shoes to go to school- not like you!

    And back in my day....

    You know how the stories go!

    All joking aside though, there's a time and a place for everything. Our Unit has gone through the exact same problems. Maybe it was a bad choice of words on your part, but horseplay around the station is not on. (Well, within reason! We've had our share of good water fights and other fun stuff over the years!)

    I'm a firm believer that times are changing. Learn from the older ones, but at the same time, they need to recognize that the future of any Department is its younger members.

    Just be a bit wary stacking votes to get rid of him- you may end up with someone in control who can't manage, can't control and worst of all- can't lead!

    Enjoy your time in the service- you'll learn heaps, you'll have fun, you'll shed some tear too, but remember one thing- you only stop learning when you're 6 feet under....
    Luke

  15. #40
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    Lutan....Excellent advice....
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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