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  1. #1
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Angry Another Firefighter Charged???

    Say it isn't so...I hope this report is not accurate.

    http://www.firehouse.com/wildfires/2...0_APstart.html

    Good God....two massive fires, allegedly started by our own. Forests destroyed, homes lost...I am at a loss for words.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    Default

    What the hell is wrong with people? Are they intentionally trying to get civilians and FF's killed?

    I'm starting to think that if anyone dies, any person property is lost, that these people should be held responsible for the damage. Doing time in jail isn't enough. Especially being a FF and setting a fire.

    There are no words to express my anger and outrage.

  3. #3
    Forum Member SPIPER's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by Temptaker

    I'm starting to think that if anyone dies, any person property is lost, that these people should be held responsible for the damage. Doing time in jail isn't enough. Especially being a FF and setting a fire.

    There are no words to express my anger and outrage.
    My sentiments exactly!
    Steve
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  4. #4
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Angry

    The cable news networks just showed video of the arrest and a news conference. Apparently...just an employee of the BIA..but not a firefighter? Maybe I heard wrong?
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  5. #5
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Default

    Nope, you heard right. Initial reports did have him as a firefighter with the Bureau of Indian Affairs, but they seem to be squirming about that description. They don't really seem to know what he actually does with the BIA.
    Steve Gallagher
    IACOJ BOT
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    Default

    I don't think it really matters. The penalties for arson of any kind aren't nearly stiff enough. This guy should be held responsible for the losses incurred. If he doesn't have the money to pay, well then he should have to sell every last thing he owns, and he should have to go in himself personally and do the clean up, plus jail time.

  7. #7
    Member Baker FF/PM's Avatar
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    Default

    What we as firefighters need to do in our communities is let them know that we aren't like this and how upsetting it is for us to have this happen. They should be told that alleged Mutts , like this individual, put us in danger by causing these fires. Look at the Colorado fire started by the alleged Mutt of a Forest Ranger burning her boyfriend's letter to her, five brothers died on the way to the fire in a van crash which probably wouldn't have happened if she hadn't of been immature and stupid!
    I would...but no!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    Default

    I just heard on the news, this guy worked as a FF, on a contract basis, and part time with the BIA. He apparently started two fires on the same day, one of them was put out. The other was the one that merged. It was reported on Komo4 news that he said he started the fire to make money.

    This MUTT should be strung up!!!!

  9. #9
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Angry Admission of arson for profit

    This is a dark day for wildland firefighters. The following paragraph leads the AP story.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    SHOW LOW, Ariz. (AP) - A part-time firefighter charged Sunday
    with starting one of the two wildfires that merged into the largest
    in Arizona's history told an investigator he set it to make money
    as part of a fire crew, according to court documents.
    Still, I have nothing but praise for the thousands of other FF's that have done marvelous work in this ferocious, early western fire season! They are to be commended for their efforts against these "monster" blazes.
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  10. #10
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Unhappy MORE

    SHOW LOW, Ariz. (AP) - About 1,000 contract firefighters live on
    the Fort Apache Indian Reservation, many relying on the part-time
    job as their only source of income, the tribal chairman said
    Sunday.
    "The rest of the year they don't even work," said Dallas
    Massey, chairman of the White Mountain Apache Tribe. "Unemployment
    is over 60 percent on the reservation."
    Leonard Gregg, a contract firefighter who has done work for the
    Bureau of Indian Affairs, told an investigator he set one of two
    wildfires that merged into the largest in Arizona's history so he
    could get work fighting it, according to court documents. He was
    charged Sunday.
    Massey said he didn't know Gregg, who lives on the reservation
    in Cibecue.
    The fire Gregg allegedly set merged with another started by a
    lost hiker signaling a helicopter. No one has been charged in the
    second blaze.
    The combined fire has destroyed more than 400 homes in the
    mountains of eastern Arizona.

    (Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press
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  11. #11
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    Default Don't Call These Persons Firefighters

    Two things:

    1. What are the PIO's in Colorado and Arizona thinking? Please do not refer to these two Yahoos as Firefighters, they are not! Additionally, don't let the Media call them Firefighters without correcting them. Both of these individuals are only marginally related to the fire service, and are not, by virtue of training and or responsibilities, Firefighters.

    2. If they want to stop fires, like the one in AZ, then the Feds need to take the profit motive out of firefighting. That means hiring additional seasonal firefighters, having more agency resources, developing better automatic aid, mutual aid, and resource sharing agreements. Yes, it will be more expensive - but how much is the one fire in AZ costing? Bottom line, as long as private dozer operators, or water truck owners, or call-back Firefighters, stand to make money when the woods burn - then we will have some of those folks lighting them so that they can fight em - and get the $$$$$$$!

  12. #12
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    Angry What burns me...

    (no pun intended)...is the way the media will latch onto the story of these 2 sad individuals and instantly forget about the thousands of firefighters who are on the lines, in the camps, in the air, working their tails off to fight the fires. I saw a lot of news stories that played up these 2 supposed firefighters and NEVER mentioned all the heroes that are out there.

    Just my two cents. Be safe all!

  13. #13
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Wink LadyFF13

    Actually, ABC News Nightline has done two entire shows dedicated to wildland firefighters, both in Colorado and Arizona.
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  14. #14
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    Wink Don't get me wrong...

    I've seen some *wonderful* coverage of the firefighting efforts. But it seems like when they do have broadcasts or news stories about the 2 who set the fires, those broadcasts don't balance the reports by also giving credit where it is due. I even saw a political cartoon of Smokey the Bear walking away after setting fire to a piece of paper that read 'Fire Ban' and throwing it to the ground. It may have been in black and white, but I was seeing red.

    Ummm...and if you ever get wind of one of those *good* shows coming up...I know I'd love a heads up!

  15. #15
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't get me wrong...

    Originally posted by LadyFF13
    I even saw a political cartoon of Smokey the Bear walking away after setting fire to a piece of paper that read 'Fire Ban' and throwing it to the ground.
    That's downright Un-American! But....again, that's what the public remembers...the bad apples.
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  16. #16
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    Post Firefighter Arsonists-Urban Myth

    Interesting article in the NY Times about firefighting arsonists. Contrary to the nonsense believed by many the article states that there is actually no empirical evidence to back up the claim that FF's are more likely to be arsonists than the general population. This is just an urban myth. Most likely fed by the way it becomes such big news whenever anyone even remotely connected to firefighting is involved with a set fire.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/09/he...rtner=MOREOVER

  17. #17
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    An excellent article...and I thank you for posting it. However, and most unfortunately...the public sees one firefighter accused of arson, and THAT'S what they remember.

    You know the old saying..."one bad apple..?"

    Thanks again for that revealing article!!
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Don't Call These Persons Firefighters

    Originally posted by Timd
    Two things:

    1. What are the PIO's in Colorado and Arizona thinking? Please do not refer to these two Yahoos as Firefighters, they are not! Additionally, don't let the Media call them Firefighters without correcting them. Both of these individuals are only marginally related to the fire service, and are not, by virtue of training and or responsibilities, Firefighters.

    2. If they want to stop fires, like the one in AZ, then the Feds need to take the profit motive out of firefighting. That means hiring additional seasonal firefighters, having more agency resources, developing better automatic aid, mutual aid, and resource sharing agreements. Yes, it will be more expensive - but how much is the one fire in AZ costing? Bottom line, as long as private dozer operators, or water truck owners, or call-back Firefighters, stand to make money when the woods burn - then we will have some of those folks lighting them so that they can fight em - and get the $$$$$$$!
    Tim,
    I have to take issue with your first statement. It appears to me that the guy who started the Arizona fire is a firefighter. I was on an AD crew for 6 years before I went to work with the BLM, and I was a firefighter, by virtue of my training and my work assignement. Being a mopshot puts you on the bottom of the pile in the eyes of many, but it's still firefighting. I know that on some of the big fires in California (the Hamm in '87, for example), I saw plenty of city firefighters doing the same mop-up I was doing, but for a lot more money than the $7+/hour I was making that summer.

    I'm well aware that AD crews are looked down upon, but the crews I worked on were good crews, with people who earned their money with hard work.

    Sunil Ramalingam

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