1. #1
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    Default Station uniform shorts

    Looking for information regarding policies
    or experiences with allowing on-duty firefighters
    to wear uniform shorts.

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    Cool

    emmett,
    i wear them everday i go to work. as far as a policies
    we have no standing one. alot of department out here in az. wear them
    and so does my brother in Fort Worth Tx.


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    When hell freezes over and pigs fly, we might be able to get them. I just keep dreaming.
    This space for rent

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    Originally posted by Kyle Wickman
    When hell freezes over and pigs fly, we might be able to get them. I just keep dreaming.
    What he said

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    Default Inappropriate

    This will start a controversy for sure. I think they are unprofessional and very inappropriate for station wear as are the supermarket type golf/polo shirts. Unless...you are at a BEACH Station or on Marine unit.
    Last edited by captstanm1; 09-28-2003 at 05:31 AM.
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    I guess we should go back to ties and ice cream truck driver hats!
    Shorts and t-shirts do not make you unproffesional, the people who wear them do. If you have proffesional peeps, wearing the same thing it is a uniform. I haven't seen any of the depts wearing cut offs and muscle shirts or anything which I agree would be unproffesional, but nice shorts, and tees or polos when it is hot outside--why not?

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    Now me, I hate polos as well - I can't stand the collar and the fact that most of them are polyester. I want to shift into shorts based on safety and professional appearance - I see no logic in the extra heat retention and discomfort afforded by the long pants when it's 110+ degrees out. Not only that, but who really wants to see the nasty sweat soaked things on a medical call? I say wear shorts, throw on a pair of brush pants for medicals/public assists, and bunker out for fires.

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    Here in SE Texas, where its 98 degrees and 98% humidity, shorts are becoming the norm in some departments. The dept. that I work for allows shorts to be worn during a certain time of the year (April-Oct.). Yes, for some, they believe that they are unprofessional, and like FIRESHAWN1175 stated, its the individual, not the uniform. When someone dials those 3 little numbers, they dont care if you are in shorts or long pants. Just as long someone shows up and takes care of business.
    These are MY opinions only, not the organizations that I am affiliated with.

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    Just passing on my opinion.

    I was at a 4th celebration last evening and saw some firefighters in shorts as well as police officers....TACKY to say the least....in my humble opinion.

    With that being said, I wonder if any of you wearing shorts have had any experience with the "slick liners" certain gear manufacturers use? It would see to me with this type of liner (that does not wick or breathe well) against your bare skin there is a potential for some pretty good steam burns.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    If I were in charge of my Department, the summer uniform would be either a T-shirt or a henley shirt (it's like a t-shirt, only it had three buttons) and shorts. Many other organizations, such as the US Postal Service, UPS, etc. allow a summer uniform that includes shorts...and they deal with the public every day.

    Our turnout gear meets the specifications of NFPA 1971. Most firefighters wear t-shirts and gym shorts to bed when they are on duty, so what is the difference if they are wearing uniform shorts during the day?

    Professionalism isn't just a "look", it's an attitude!
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    Default I'm with the Capt......GONZO

    I want to wear shorts...I could give a rats hind end if they look "tacky"...I have seen some real horrible firefighters that sure looked good in a uniform,The clothes DO NOT make the firefighter.

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    I have to agree with Gonzo on this one. I was at a July 4th parade yesterday where the temperature was 100 and the heat index was 112. I saw some county paramedics working on a hear exhaustion case. They were weaing their uniform pants and shirts, and they looked like they were in more distress than the person they were treating. This job is difficult enough without being miserable at the station. I can't imagine working at a house that doesn't have a good air conditioning system in those conditions. By the way, from what I hear there are many old stations in the north east that don't have adequate air conditioning. Fortunately, my company built a new station in 1990. We had to rely on window AC units in the old station.
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    We're not permitted to have them on in the street or in quarters unless we're working out or sleeping. I wear a pair of cotton shorts under my "gas station pants" ( our work pants ) and slip out of them when I gear up so I can have a cooler core temperature, better exercise potential,and less "hiking up" than long trousers. In over 20 years of wearing all sorts of turnout pants I've had burns both ways; with trousers, and with shorts on my legs. Chances are if it comes through your turnouts, it'll come through any trouser they make.I would love to be able to wear them like FDNY and think they're far from unprofessional.

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    Shorts may not be a bad idea if you are planning on bunkin out on every call you go on. Were allowed to wear them when working out and for sleep wear. However pants do offer a little more protection to the lower body. Im all for them, ive seen them wore in some western departments and they did not look unprofessional at all. My department does not offer us the jumpsuits for ems type activity, and God knows thats 80% of our calls (glad we dont transport)so i prefer the pants.

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    Okay, my two cents....

    I agree that they might look a bit unprofessional, but good grief...it's freakin hot in our uniforms! Here in South Florida, the humity can be 110% and the temp about the same. I work at a beach station now, and we've had to make a couple of rescues. I can tell you that I certainly did NOT look professional after a run down the beach in a t-shirt, a dress shirt over it, and long pants. The Navy has a summer uniform for tropical climates that includes shorts..and Tthe police officers here do have a special summer uniform, and the truth is, they don't look all that professional, but the trend here is beginning to become that we look more like the people we treat, not a breed apart. Some of the police departments are allowing facial hair and long hair for the men as long as they keep it neat, and they can have an earring. I know we aren't cops, but we are out on those streets more than they are sometimes. It becomes an issue not of looks, but of safety. Heat stroke isn't fun, especially if it's you!

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    Ember

    The earring thing annoys me, I reckon anyyone who has been around that profession for a while has seen the result of an earring being torn out.

    It does not look professional and creates unneeded down time for an avoidable injury.

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    Kiwi,

    I agree with the earring thing, it not only looks bad, but it is dangerous as well. (If I were a criminal, the first thing I would do is rip that sucker out *weg*) I was just trying to make a point, allbeit badly, lol. The real issue that I think needs to be addressed at this point is the issue of safety. I realize that it's much better to have the long pants in case of a fire...however, surely there can be a compromise made. A lot of the time we are outside cutting the grass or training for hours and running calls inbetween. It looks really poor when you have huge wet spots under your arms and down your back. Not to mention there are those that don't...well...smell that sweet, *g*. (Not me of course...*s*)

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    Thumbs up Bring on the Shorts

    I have to agree with pretty much everyone thus far. As far at the steam burns or higher tendancy to burn on the exposed legs, I ask; What's the difference between the legs and the lower part of the arms that is uncovered under the coat? Aren't they both equally unprotected. If you listen to the reasoning of the guys saying your legs will burn without a covering of pants, everyone needs to wear a long-sleeve shirt under their gear, too. I don't think in the 100+ temps, you'll get anyone to wear a long-sleeve shirt.

    As far as the "professional" look, I agree again. Some of the best firefighters and paramedics I've ever had the pleasure to work with aren't exactly the best dressed in the station. You can't worry about appearence as much as you must worry about skill. Shorts won't affect anyone's skill. If you're and idiot in pants, you're still gonna ba an idiot in shorts. Likewise with the good guys. If you know what you're doing, what you're wearing below the waist won't make any difference.
    Life is only temporary, but freedom goes on forever. God bless those who gave all.

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    OK OK OK....I give.... Wear the shorts... Just not in my department!

    I enjoyed the spirited debate. And I will agree....idiots look the same in shorts or long pants.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    Captstanm1...

    Does that mean if we visit your station or go mutual aid we should bring a change of clothes with us? just kidding!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Now, Stan, George will chastise you for your 'inconsistency' on this issue. I happen to agree with the majority, even though the powers-that- be in my department do not. After the brutality that was inflicted on all of us this week by the weather, I have to believe that the public is best served by firefighters who are not on the verge of heat stroke by virtue of their attire.

    The only people that I saw on the Mall in DC last week wearing dark blue shirts and long pants were the firefighters and EMS personnel. All the other people were appropriately dressed.

    That doesn't excuse the officer/supervisor from the responsibility to insure that all of his/her personnel are dressed in the uniform of the day. If that is shorts and polo shirts, ALL the personnel should be so attired. Ball caps worn with the bill to the side, unlaced shoes, personal stereos with headphones (yes, I've seen firefighters wearing all of these) are signs of unprofessionalism and lack of supervision. THAT is what I find objectionable!

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    Here we have been able to wear them for the past 3 summers. They are an optional uniform, so you have to purchase them with you own loot. The first summer I was a little skeptical. I thought that you looked more like a Fedex or UPS employee then a firefighter, so I didn't purchase them. The second summer I kind of "warmed up" to the idea when we went through a stretch of 100 degree days with 98% humidity. This spring I took the leap and bought the damn things, and I only wish that I would have done it in the begining. Very comfortable even under turnout gear. Our spec is: Flying Cross Polo style shirt (100% cotton) with department logo embroidered on the left chest and last name on the right chest. Flying Cross, 100% cotton mid-thigh short pants. Rockey 6" Chukka shoes with black socks. I know some of you are thinking, Black socks?? It doesn't look as bad as it sounds.
    I have to agree with most of the opinions here, That looking professional extends far past what someone is wearing.
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    Question Are your shorts NFPA compliant?????

    For those of you that are allowed to wear shorts on duty, are they NFPA compliant? The reason I ask is that our department requires the layer under our turnout gear to be compliant. We currently are wearing Nomex pants and either a FFR or 100% cotton NFPA approved polo shirt. I am looking for 100% cotton shorts in a gym short style to wear mainly at night for now. Some of the guys have FFR shorts from when we went to the FFR shirts years ago but they don't make them anymore. Anyone have any help????


    Thanks

    Tim

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    Gonzo......touche'... No...if you run mutual aid or visit for whatever reason you can wear whatever your department authorizes.

    However...no danger.....Captstanm1 is not qualified to be a Chief...no degree!

    OldE6Man....I did not say I changed my opinion...I just said that I give. It is apparent I am fighting a losing battle and therefore must admit defeat gracefully! And...believe it or not>>>>I concur with your thoughts about supervision problems leading to unprofessional looks. I am certain that is why most departments went away from T-shirts at night or in down time or for calls and also dropped the traditional work shirt and hardware. They are no longer appropriate because supervisors did not exercise control and good judgement. (again....not trying to open a can of worms...just some passing thoughts)

    Besides....I think George knows or understands where I am coming from.
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    Just my opinion but.


    I think they look un-professional, they just dont look right.They just look tackey ,even on Police Officers. Also what if you had a cut on your leg and you had the shorts on and you went to a medical call and the victim had HEP-C or AIDS and was spurting blood? Pants wouldnt protect that much,but would'nt it be better than nothing? And they are a diss to the taxpayer who drives by our brand new station that is very,very air conditioned and sees firefighters on the front of the trucks sunning them selves- I pay taxes and I know I would'nt like it!.

    This came up at a meeting were we disscused uniforms for us explorers.
    About 3 seconds after the issue was brought up for shorts for explorer uniforms ,I quashed it with a flat NO!
    Im the Chief of the explorers.We act very professional about our work and our learning. It is hard enough to get respect, and i did not feel that shorts would help this image.It also would make us stand out from the other members of the department.

    Just my thoughts on this issue.
    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by dfdex1; 07-23-2002 at 10:49 PM.

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