Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    MABAS Division 56
    Posts
    18

    Angry Relationship and suspension!

    Ok this may take a minute to explain but I would like some feed back. This is a volunteer Department.

    Male Firefighter A is in a relationship with female Firefighter B. Relationship ends. A few months go by and Firefighter A is in a new relationship with Girlfriend C. Girlfriend C starts getting letters from "Wives of the Department" about Firefighter A however, even though you are not 100% sure, you feel that the letter has really come from Firefighter B. Girlfriend C writes a letter and sends it to ALL the "Wives of the Department", agking them to stay out of her personal life. Firefighter A learns of the letter after it has been sent.

    The true Wives of the Department are enreged over the letter to Girlfriend C about Firefighter A. Elected Officers (Pres./V.P./etc)of the Department meet and vote to force Firefighters A and B into a Leave of Absence or face a minimum 60 day suspension pending an investigation! There are no provisions from Disciplinary Action with in the By-Laws of the Department.

    My questions are these:
    1) Has the Department over stepped its bounds?
    2) Should the Department have "suspended" Firefighter A?
    3) What type of investigation would you perform?
    4) What type of action should either face?
    5) If Firefighter A is cleared should he expect credit for time off
    back and/or an apology from the Department?


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber NCRSQ751's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Clemmons, NC
    Posts
    199

    Default

    That's ugly. I have several questions:

    1. Why did 'C' even respond to such a letter? And why in writing?

    2. Did 'C' check with any "wives" to see if it was a valid issue?

    3. Why exactly did this become a department issue? Why did anyone feel discipline was needed for what seems to be a personal matter gone amuck - did this somehow affect anyone's firefighting abilities?

    4. How can the officers justify a suspension if there is no proof as to who wrote the original letter, or that you have done anything wrong?

    5. What were the contents of this letter - without giving us the gory details - did it claim that you were violent or in some way detrimental to the department?

    I'm not trying to blame 'C' for the blowup of the situation - but I would bet there was a better and more tactful way to handle this that might have had better results.

    Bottom line is you don't seem to be able to prove who sent the original letter - and if she wanted everyone to stay out of her private life - a broadcast letter wasn't the way to do it.

    If 'B' wrote the letter, she has bigger problems than a suspension or leave.

    If there truly is not more to it, and there is nothing in the letter or these conversations that indicates you are not a fit firefighter than I don't see why the officers made it their business to begin with. I'd approach your board or whomever you appeal to and have the situation reviewed.

    I stay out of my people's personal lives unless it affects the department - that's the only time it's my busness.
    Susan Lounsbury
    Winston-Salem Rescue Squad
    Griffith Volunteer FD

  3. #3
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Exclamation Holy Smoke...Another Peyton place in the Fire Service!!

    My questions are the same as the NC Chief.


    I do think that suspension is a bit harsh. How can you suspend someone for something that is of personal nature. Someone needs to do some damage control that is for sure. You can not have an effective department if all the male member's wives are on the warpath. Makes for too much tension. Now days boards are scared of their own shadow. You or (whomever) was convicted and punished (or so it seems) without a chance to defend or provide perspective.

    Does not seem (unless) something is missing here that there is disciplinary action material. Sure..discussion, counseling perhaps and some advice to clean up the act...but suspension??? Nothing was actually done wrong. True...the letter to the wives may have been inappropriate based on limited knowledge...but come on...

    There is such a thing as defimation (spelling??) of character.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  4. #4
    Forum Member MetalMedic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    The Home of Smucker's Jelly
    Posts
    1,266

    Default

    Were the letters written on department letterhead, during department time or by a department computer, typewriter, pen, etc? If not, what is the connection to the department? Unless this has been exposed publicly, what damage has been caused to the department. It sounds to me like a little "cat-fight", but I fail to see where it is any of the department's business. Given the information you have posted, I would be talking to a lawyer.
    Richard Nester
    Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

    "People don't care what you know... until they know that you care." - Scott Bolleter

  5. #5
    Temporarily/No Longer Active
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    1,000 miles from Private Pile
    Posts
    37

    Default ALL I CAN SAY.....

    All I can say is....those poor wives! As if their jobs are not hard enough already!

  6. #6
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    Rod that is butt ugly a situation as anyone can get themselves into.

    Reading from afar, A is better off without B or C, both have displayed a level of maturity usually found in the sand pit.

    A needs to explain the truth (and only that, no personal stuff) to his superiors) and potentialy needs to be allowed to explain this to his fellow FF and their wives.

    This is a "CLASSIC" example ot the hoary old expression "Never date work mates". It just does not work in 99 % of cases, and usually ends up with S&$# like this flying.

    A should probably take the 60 days to sort his personal life out, and come back focused on doing what he should be doing around the station, fighting fires, not sharing bunks.

    That is not being harsh, but as A has just learnt, it is true.

  7. #7
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Now in Victoria, BC. I'm from beautiful Jasper Alberta in the heart of the Can. Rockies - will always be an Albertan at heart!
    Posts
    6,329

    Default

    O M G !!!!!!!!! *Sher checks forehead to see if she's sick* okok maybe its the alchol Froggy did hell freeze over LMFAOOOOOOO cause we actually agree on something! but seriously, you have it right, the wives seem to be the victims in this case.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  8. #8
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    I am with metal medic here...

    But I still think that something is missing from the information that we have been provided.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    MABAS Division 56
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Thanks everyone for the input. Here is some more information that might help:

    1: Girlfriend C now wishes that she would have never sent the letter. But, doesn't she have the right to defend herself or Firefighter A if she wants to?

    2: As far as the letter to Girlfriend C, it was not done with Department equipment that anyone can tell. The content include comments about the quality of person Firefighter A was, his "inability" to be a good father, other personal information that all can be disproved. Some of it already has. There was a comment that Firefighter A could not get hired by the paid Department because he could never pass the psycological(sp)exams. This has been disproved by the Department even though they do not want to admit it yet.

    3: One more interesting thing. The main reason the Department gave for the suspension, or more correctly forced Leave of Absence, is that this presented a SAFETY ISSUE!

    Looking forward to more replies
    Last edited by lvfd822; 07-06-2002 at 02:28 PM.
    Stay Safe.
    Firefighting... the only REAL job for us crazy ones

    Never forget our fallen brothers
    9-11-01

  10. #10
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    942

    Default

    Kiwi

    I am totally with you on this one. C NEVER should have sent any letters to anyone without talking to A first! The actions of both B and C are completely juvenille.

    Rod

    A safety Issue... hmmm.. Well reading your original post I wondered if B was a fatal attractant, obviously the brass in the dept thinks there is a potential problem. I think both were suspended to prevent any direct retribution on fire ground. B has a serious problem. I also have to go with Captstanm1 on the defamation of character and possible libel suit that could be forth coming if it can be proven that B actually wrote the letters to C assuming that C retained the letters.

    Messy messy messy...

    Did the dept overstep it's bounds? Well you have to consider the ramifications that could follow if it was proven that the dept knew what was going on and they didn't do anything to try to stop it. If the situation escalated to something physical or more personally detrimental to the FF's involved, could the dept be named in a civil suit?

    I don't necessarily agree with the suspensions, but the dept had to do something pending investigation. Since alligations were made about A by B, it sorta makes sense to suspend both. It is a CYA thing.

    Personally I would do psych eval's on all three. C because she jumped before she looked. B because there is a serious problem there, and A because what the Hell was he thinking when he got involved with either? There are some pretty great tests out now that can tell if someone is trying to pretend that they have a psych illness, hide that they have a psych illness, or flat out lie. That would be number 1 on the list. #2 I would interview all parties, both formally and informally. By that I mean, take them into the office for a chat, and also have someone (not the same original interviewer) take them out for a beer. The second isn't necessarily admissible in court, but it could go a long way in determining an appropriate course of action.

    In any case B needs some therapy, C needs to grow up, and A needs to look for a new kind of woman.
    Last edited by Temptaker; 07-07-2002 at 05:10 AM.

  11. #11
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    I feel the department did overstep its bounds.

    Put a stop to it....YES!

    Therapy....yes...for all involved!
    Seems liek a Peyton Place.

    Safety issue???? HUH?(I am so confused)

    Behavior modification is a must in this case, but suspension or forced leave of absence...NO. There is a hint of possible defimation of character if the content of the letter is as described here for A....or was it B? or C?
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  12. #12
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Default

    A + B x (C-A)=B^ or (BC/A x the sum of all sides) minus X.

    This sounds like a job for the local Chaplain...and not the FD officers.
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  13. #13
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Default

    NJFFS_A16....

    I feel better now.... With your keen detective type mind...and you have not figured out the connection and the loop here...I am relieved.

    I thought it was old age setting in and I was losing my ability to analyze!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Witt
    Posts
    2

    Default

    I would like to take this time to tell everyone that i know firefighter A personally and he deserves everything he gets. I bet your not aware that this is not the first time he's used the wrong ho's at the dept. He's known for screwing other firefighters wives,and a homewrecker. Safety issues are at hand, could you honeslty save the life of firefighter A knowing he had stabbed his fellow firefighting brother in the back by screwing his wife? The letter writing is juvenile, but so are his actions! A person like firefighter A destroys the morale that fire depts work so hard to obtain. Its time to leave the scene Firefighter A! Your past has finally caught up with you!

  15. #15
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    OUCH!!!

    could you honeslty save the life of firefighter A knowing he had stabbed his fellow firefighting brother in the back by screwing his wife
    Yes, as he is still a FF. That's not to say he would not get some Fire Ground Justice served up to him.

    Hollywood. Please take a deep breath and CALMLY explain, WITHOUT the personal attack bits. Agree with you on the moral/morale side of the issue, if these facts are known to the chiefs, then what the heck is he still doing in the brigade in the first place?

    If the chiefs do not know the full FACTS, maybe they should. I am emphasing facts, because it must be presented unemotionaly, with only provable facts, no heresay or rumours.

    And excuse me but can you define Ho's a bit better for me as used in your post. I always thought that was a derogatory term for a female, not an expression for a fellow firefighter.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1

    Default Just the facts

    You all have very valid comments, unfortunately, you don't have all the facts. This is not just a volunteer department, it also includes a paid department. FF A and FF B are both volunteers. It is my hope that the board will make an appropriate decision and if not, I hope the city can get involved.

    Just a few facts:

    1. This has been going on for more than three years. FF's A and B have been engaged twice and both break ups were VERY messy. FF B lured FF A away from his pregnant wife.

    2. FF's A and B have been known to respond to fires honking their horn at those who get in the way, yelling obscenities and asking them if they know what a blue light is for.

    3. The above fact cannot be refuted because it was deposed and documented during a sexual harassment hearing when FF B (while engaged to FF A the first time) accused a paid department firefighter of sexual harassment during a Volunteer meeting. FF A sat idly by salivating at the prospect of a possible opening in the paid department (as deposed by the ex-wife), never even tried to punch the accused offender in the nose for harassing his fiancee, and apologized about the whole thing after the first break up. The city determined that they had no jurisdiction and reinstated the paid man.

    4. It has always made me curious as to why FF B never tried to file a civil suit of harassment after the department turned her away.

    Need I say more? Please just don't even give FF A any more of your attention, it will just make a mockery of a respectful forum for serious firefighters who truly care about and respect their brothers.

    As for me, I do not intend to visit or read anymore of this thread as I am done with this so aptly described "Peyton Place". I know where I stand with my firefighter and I am proud of the 26 year career he has had.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,658

    Default

    Get a life folks! Air you dirty laundry and cr#p somewhere else please.

  18. #18
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    6,413

    Lightbulb I Knew it!!!!

    We all said that there was more to this than was being passed on.

    Thanks to weary wife for providing the insight

    Now....what can we say.....

    Only thing I want to know now is where this place is???
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  19. #19
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Unhappy

    Now that another party has become involved with facts regarding this problem.....I am firmly of the opinion that this discussion has no place in the Firehouse Forums. The personal lives of firefighters, their wives and families need to be kept just that...PERSONAL. I intend to ask the webteam to close this thread and take whatever action they deem necessary to prevent this discussion from taking place on these forums.

    It's approaching libel and slander proportions.
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  20. #20
    Member ember's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    As soon as I find myself, I'll let you know
    Posts
    62

    Default

    This is the kind of thing that makes it hard for females and males to work together. It isn't the women, or the men, it's the juvenile attitudes.

    Unfortunately, it isn't isolated. We have a situation here where a Captain (married) slept with one of the firefighters under his command's wife. Sad isn't it. We also seem to have a lot of ex-wives dating or marrying other firefighters. I'm glad to say, though, that for the mostpart it's kept off-duty, where it belongs.

    I'm probably going to tick someone off here (although I am not trying to) but, why, exactly, should we feel sad for the wives? I am the wife of a police officer. That doesn't mean that anyone should feel sad for me. It sucks when he has to get up at 4:00 for a SWAT team callout. I'm worried sick. But THAT IS HIS JOB. I knew it when I married him. He also knew mine when he married me.

    Truthfully? My hubby thinks it great. One out of every three days he gets to sit around scratching himself while wearing black socks and shorts and drinking a JD and coke....in pure silence! (Not that I talk a lot, *s*)

    Ember
    50513421

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts