I agree with Motown. The way I see it, MY BROTHER comes before civilians. The only thing is, in this type of situation (not having actually have been there myself) you wouldnt have time to think about which one you would save. Trying to guess "which one would survive" would put you in increasing danger while you sat there trying to figure it out, not to mention if the one you did carry out didnt make it anyway. I know we're "public servants" but I believe we have a duty to ourselves first, then our brothers and then the public.
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07-08-2002, 07:02 PM #21
"Save a cow......eat a vegetarian"
- Join Date
- Dec 1999
- Northbridge Ma
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity"
07-08-2002, 07:17 PM #22MOTOWN posted:
Now I will field all comments about me being a cold cruel S.O.B.
I gotta agree with ya, bro. Everybody goes home, one way or the other. I'm taking my brother. Real world though, If I'm dragging an adult out, what's another 30lbs.? Especially when I've dumpped about 1.5 gallons of adrenaline. I wouldn't want to waste it.Steve Gallagher
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
07-08-2002, 07:17 PM #23
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
This is a real question from many real oral boards...there is no evasion of the true question...put simply, what would YOU do and why? Not, "I would take both", or "I would have a partner". This is an ugly situation no question...but you have to make a choice...how would you decide? And what would be the consequences of your action?
Last edited by exsilio; 07-08-2002 at 07:26 PM.EMT
...testing for FF
07-08-2002, 07:18 PM #24
Why not both? Lay the child on top of the firefighter (if the FF is concious have him hold the child) then drap both out at the same time!IACOJ Agitator
Fightin' Da Man Since '78!
07-08-2002, 07:31 PM #25
Real life should not leave you with this choice.
You should not be it a FIRE/COLLAPSE area alone.
The word team should come into play here.
Test questions don't leave you with alturnitives,
as 13 year vet of the fire service, I can say that
I have never been in that situation(and hope never to be)
that situation. I have been running for an exit one
or twice. I have always found a sulition to the problem.
Most vets know the risk and why they went into this line
This is food for thought.
Why did you become a Firefighter.
All hearts ache when we lose a brother or sister!
Let pray we don't have to use our badge covers
again in the near future.
07-08-2002, 08:26 PM #26
The courses I have taken have listed the job priorities as this: #1 yourself #2 your fellow firefighter(s) #3 the public. I take the brother.
07-08-2002, 08:37 PM #27
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- lumberton, NJ
I guess this is a hard choice either way.
If I couldn't rescue both I would do a quick look to see if either the child or FF was still in good shape(breathing) and had the most chance of living.
Of course its sort of like fighting a war. In that you go in as a unit and save your own before civilians. I mean would you leave a man to be shot and killed by the enemy to save a civilian just the same as leaving a man to be burned. It wouldn't be a good situation either path you chose. I know personally I would NEVER leave my partner inside.**This space for rent**
07-08-2002, 08:39 PM #28
I cant believe this question would be asked in a interview process.It dosent really make much sense. Unless you are operating by yourself (then I would have whoever is giving me the order join me)It really is a stupid question/scenario..
07-08-2002, 08:42 PM #29
OK, back up a bit and think those of you having confusion on the issue.
The child has been inside the building since PRIOR to the fire initiating. The FF has been in since, is probably wearing BA and stands a significantly greater chance of living.
Firefighters do come first, if you are thinking otherwise then please do not come near me and my team at a fire ground.
Can you get the FF and child, probably yes, even if it includes stuffing the child up his bunker coat.
If your egress path has turned to custard and no way to manage both, then take your Partner, he/she will keep you alive on another day.Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.
07-08-2002, 08:55 PM #30
I went in with my Brother, I'm coming out with my Brother.FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB-KTF
07-08-2002, 09:04 PM #31
The question reads like you just happen to come across an unconcious fireman. It dosent make much sense. I would hope we would all look out for each other a little better then that.
07-08-2002, 09:10 PM #32
- Join Date
- Sep 2001
I am my brothers keeper.
07-08-2002, 09:13 PM #33
- Join Date
- Apr 2001
- brooklyn new york
who goes home?
The brother comes out first. No choice, no thinking, no second guess involved. In the past I have found multiple victims at a fire, I notified the chief of location, number of victims and then took the smallest one (lol, I have learned a thing or two). But now we are talking about choice between a civilian (even if it is a child)or one of US. No choice. Never a choice. Our responsibility is to each other, then our families, then all others.
bob g r-2
07-08-2002, 09:19 PM #34
- Join Date
- Nov 2000
- MD & NJ
Without even a hesitation, it would be the firefighter that I would take out. I am there to watch his back and he is there to watch mine. Someone else can come in and try to rescue the child. I take care of my own first.When Life Is On The Line. We Are Never Off Duty.
07-08-2002, 09:44 PM #35
For the record I would take the brother for the reasons rescue2bob stated..... but what if the second victim was an 75yo female the choice then might be a little easier
Remember everyone goes homeIACOJ Membership 2002
The beatings will continue until the morale improves
07-08-2002, 11:18 PM #36
- Join Date
- Dec 2000
I agree with Mikey, this is a stupid scenario. I would be in there with a partner and we would grab both. But for hypothetical sake:
Both answers have merit. I've gotta watch out for my brother or sister but being a parent of young children, it would tear me up to leave the kid behind.
When it came down to it, I'd grab the firefighter but this would require some very long CISD sessions!FTM-PTB-DTRT
07-08-2002, 11:43 PM #37
We are trained as follows:
2. My brothers/sisters
3. Everyone else
The job requires the highest degree of trust, and without that, we can't function. I would be reluctant to voluntarily enter a dangerous situation with a partner who had previously chosen not to save a brother or sister when they had the chance.
I might have to move to another state afterward, or at the very least subject myelf to some serious counseling, but I would save the firefighter without hesitation.Asst. Chief Bill
International Order of the Fraternal Brotherhood of the Club
Somewhere in or near north central Creek County, Oklahoma
07-09-2002, 12:49 AM #38
First of all, I wouldn't be in there alone, so my "right hand" could assist with one.
Being a mother myself, I always said I would fight the devil himself when it comes to my son, as would any parent. So I can't begin to imagine pulling a F.F. out and facing the distraught mother.
But, in a situation where I was alone, I'd try and improvise a way to drag them both out hoping my requests for assistance would be answered. If it were impossible, I'd have to take the child.
F.F.'s know what they're getting themselves into.
That child never asked for any of it.
If you're not scared, you're not safe.
07-09-2002, 01:29 AM #39
I remember back 16 years ago when our Department was formed. There were 14 of us very green recruits going to basic firefighting classes and one of the first questions the instructor asked was "what is a firefighter's first responsibility"? I'm thinking "what a stupid question - to put out fires what else." Before I could give my stupid answer he replies with "to save lives and, the first life you are responsible for saving is your own, second is your fellow firefighters and third is everyone else." That has been ingrained in me ever since. I wouldn't have to think about it. The firefighter would be the one coming out with me.
07-09-2002, 02:12 AM #40
If found in this situation, you should have your partner by your side, so take both rescues together with your brother! If the firefighter down is your partner, your ***** better be saving that firefighter. You go.....WE go!!!! it is as simple as that to me!! I would hope we all understand that.....G.B. Yoho (member)
IAFF Local #12
Be Alert and Be Safe!!!!
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