1. #1
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    Exclamation Are Bourke Eyesheilds NFPA Compliant????

    I need to know if Bourke Eyeshields NFPA Compliant.

    We are going to buy new helmets (Ben Franklin II's) and I need to find where in NFPA it specifies how big your eye shield or eye protection needs to be. I looked long and hard and could not find specifics in inches what is required. Maybe I'm not smart enough to find it! A few of the officers think they are compliant and some don't. I need the specific number that spells this out or if anyone has knowledge that they are for sure. We want them if they are, if not we gotta deal with faceshields.

    Any help you can provide would be much appreciated.
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    do some searching in this forum...........they are NOT compliant. I dont have the particulars but they are in here.
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    You could buy helmets with Bourkes for looks and buy everyone a good pair of NFPA goggles. Goggles are much better than a sheild all around. I may be incorrect, but I think I saw somewhere that sheilds were to be supplemented with some type of safety glasses or goggles. I wear a Bullard UST with a sheild but I carry a set of goggles. I only use the sheild to keep heat off of my eyes. Hopes this helps. Stay safe and have fun!
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    Like someone said...the bourques are all over the place in this forum in different discussions.

    BUT>>>>They are non-compliant. The reason is that they are not considered "full eye protection" because there is possibility of things getting under them.... but...hmmmm....how is the face shield compliant then???? ANSWER: Darned good question.
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    Default NFPA Non Compliant

    Bullard Technical Bulletin - Bourke Eyeshields
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bourke style eyeshields continue to have a presence in the structural fire helmet industry. This spring-loaded, flip-up style visor has been a popular alternative for contemporary faceshields when worn on U.S. Traditional Styled fire helmets.

    The following information is designed to address the common questions that accompany this specific visor:

    Bourke style visors render ANY fire helmet non-compliant to NFPA structural fire helmet standards.
    Bullard Company will permit the installation of Bourke style visors on Bullard fire helmets.
    The installation of Bourke style visors on Bullard fire helmets will not void Bullardís warranty against workmanship and defects in materials.
    If a Bullard helmet cracks at the mounting holes required for installation of a Bourke style visor, Bullard would not be held accountable.
    A Bullard fire helmet that has been certified to the requirements of NFPA 1971 with goggles, may remain compliant with the ADDITION of a Bourke style visor.
    Bullard Company agrees with the decision that was made by the Technical Committee of NFPA 1971 on the issue of Bourke style visors. It is our opinion that this design does not provide adequate eye and face protection to the firefighter. We are more concerned with safety than cosmetic image. Vanity can be a dangerous associate.
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    Originally posted by captstanm1
    how is the face shield compliant then???? ANSWER: Darned good question.
    It no longer is considered "primary eye protection".

    The following online article should answer any question you have: http://www.essgoggles.com/products/NFPA.html
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    Bourkes are OSHA compliant only, not NFPA. But, like others said, supplement with NFPA goggles and you are good to go.

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    I searched the forums and found some more info.

    Thanks everyone for all your help. I think I will recommend we get the shields that come with the helmet and just get goggles anyway. I have Bourkes on my Benny now but I carry goggles with me too. Your right, vanity can be dangerous. Thank you much.

    Stay low and stay safe!!!
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    Thumbs down

    Originally posted by BucksEngine78
    Bourkes are OSHA compliant only, not NFPA. But, like others said, supplement with NFPA goggles and you are good to go.
    Beg to differ Bucks

    Bourkes are NOT OSHA compliant.

    Protective eyewear MUST meet either ANSI Z 87.1 standards or NFPA standards.

    If you use bourkes for fire fighting they can be used for heat protection but they are not eye protection.

    I know how they are used, I'm just saying what some inspector is going to say.

    If you are doing overhaul or extrication you must use approved eye protection.

    Face shields alone don't work, use ANSI approved goggles or ANSI approved safety glasses.

    You may have nine lives but you only have two eyes

    Stay safe

    Kevin

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    Bucks...I think that Safety 1 is right...

    but...my question is this....

    I know the face shield is approved and considered full face protection. But...if that is the case why do we all consider it insufficient protection.

    Safety 1 says:
    Face shields alone don't work, use ANSI approved goggles or ANSI approved safety glasses.
    I agree and also think (my humble opinion as an old crusty) that the bourques [if installed correctly] actually provide better protection than the full face shield. The problem in either case is that after a few runs...you can not see through either of them.

    I do also agree that goggles are optimum and if stored properly will outlast either of the others.
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    Not a direct answer to the question, but an opinion raised for the sake of discussion. Personally, I see the various types of eye protection in the same way as the various types of tools and equipment we carry on the rigs. Some tools work better for certain jobs just as the various types of eye protection work better for various applications. For some things shields are ok, but in other applications goggles/glasses and even Borques offer more protection. There are times when the sheilds will do more than the goggles, glasses, or Bourques will. I think we need to take a step back when it comes to standards and what is approved/not approved, and get back to promoting safety, common sense, and positive attitudes; not just what the good folks in Quincy include in their publications. Not a slam to those folks as they do a fine job overall, but a point to ponder.

    And personally I prefer the Borques on the lid with a good pair of safety glasses in the coat pocket.

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    EUitts...I agree...I also prefer the bourques and for astetic (spelling ??) reasons I would go with the goggles on my traditional before the full shield...

    I also am never far from my sunglasses which are safety glasses!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    I guess I was assuming that since the New Yorker with Bourkes is OSHA, but not NFPA, approved, that the Bourkes qualified as OSHA approved eyewear. However, I think you are right, as they are not ANSI, I guess they are not OSHA either.

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    Cool

    Originally posted by BucksEngine78
    I guess I was assuming that since the New Yorker with Bourkes is OSHA, but not NFPA, approved, that the Bourkes qualified as OSHA approved eyewear. However, I think you are right, as they are not ANSI, I guess they are not OSHA either.
    I think part of the problem is how we determine what type of protection we need for what type of operation.

    There is also a differance between face protection and eye protection.

    Face Protection - A system designed to protect the skin and facial bones of the user. The shield will be designed to perform several differant functions depending on the use. i.e. heat, chemical, solid material, liquids, respiratory pathogens.

    You would not use a BID (Bloodborne Infectious Disease) mask and shield to protect you from metals and glass in an extrication as an example.

    Eye Protection - A system designed to be worn over the eyes to protect the eyes and the orbit bones. It does not protect the face.

    A regular pair of ANSI approved safety glasses would not be appropriate for protecting the eyes when you are dealing with chemicals such as acids. They will not keep the chemicals from encountering the eyes.

    A helmet mounted face shield or Bourkes basically protect the face from impact and heat during fire fighting activities. They really aren't meant to protect the eyes and should not be used alone where you can expect to have materials thrown up in your face.

    I hope this helps - I need more coffee.

    Kevin

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    Bourques and a Scott mask cover all the bases. We use the bourques here, and either use safty glasses or Scott pack masks when eye or face protection is required.

    Compressed air is cheap.

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