1. #1
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    new hudson
    Posts
    4

    Question to go union(maff) or not

    Our Deptartment is in the middle of making a hard decision, weather to unionize. with representation of the MAFF. How we got here is a long traveled road of percived mistreatment, and favortism. The leadership has been in place for the last 30 years and has just been fulltime for the last 3 years and is just now getting caught up with today's issues. Part of the problem is issues that are addressed are often seen by many as their picking on us. when in fact leadership is trying to address the problem the best way and so it doesn't happen again. Many on the department see the union as only protecting the weak that dont show up for runs,or go that extra mile to promote a team effort. Any suggestions?

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA
    Posts
    985

    Default

    The term is actually "organize" instead of "unionize".

    I don't know anything about the MAFF. I was a charter member of an IAFF Local on a small combo department. Since you say you just went full-time, I suspect your department is small. Also, you mentioned the union "protecting the weak that dont show up for runs" so I suspect you are subject to callback?

    Here's my short experience with organizing: just about everybody better be behind the move to organize--ideally 100% of eligible members. Your guys better be willing to stick together, because you had better believe that the city/county isn't going to GIVE you anything afterwards without negotiation. Likewise, if you're going to raise serious or senstive issues, get ready for management to come down on little things that were overlooked before. I'd think it's harder on smaller departments than larger ones.

    I don't know what the issues are there, so it's up to you. Your Local will be as strong as the people in it.

    Also, you'll get a better response if you put this in the "Firefighter's Forum" or "Career/Paid Forum".
    Last edited by SilverCity4; 07-15-2002 at 06:22 PM.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    ChiefOne2004's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10

    Lightbulb TO MAFF or not to MAFF

    Our Deptartment is in the middle of making a hard decision, weather to unionize. with representation of the MAFF. How we got here is a long traveled road of percived mistreatment, and favortism. The leadership has been in place for the last 30 years and has just been fulltime for the last 3 years and is just now getting caught up with today's issues. Part of the problem is issues that are addressed are often seen by many as their picking on us. when in fact leadership is trying to address the problem the best way and so it doesn't happen again. Many on the department see the union as only protecting the weak that dont show up for runs,or go that extra mile to promote a team effort.

    I am also from Michigan and have alot of experience with Unions, but lets start with the first problem.. You say that your chief has been there for the last 30 years, Why is leadership just now addressing the problems? could it have been that the fines that the state has slapped them with came to the publics eyes? Your assistant chief had an article in the paper last summer stating that the new NFPA 1710 would basically hurt the citizens, yet infact if the assistant chief would have read a little into it maybe he would have understand the true meaning for NFPA 1710.. ITS CALLED SAFETY FOR NOT ONLY THE CITIZENS BUT FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS.. THAT MEANS YOU SGT 1.. The problems have been festering for a long time from what I understand, many letters have been written as well as one from your so called friends, or did you forget about him, OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND right? The leadership seems to be only addressing items to cover up problems or keep them in thier cushy positions as dictators, look around you, if you are closing your eyes to the truth than you are no better than the leadership, you have been given a position of leadership and a responsiblity to protect the citizens and your fellow fire fighters, do what is right and support them, not succumb to the broken promises and lies of your leadership.
    It is true a Union will protect the problem people for so long, but it is up to you as an officer and a fellow union member to correct the problems, maybe those problem people are right and you have been blinded for so long that you do not see the truth. Good Luck Sgt 1, and don't forget that personnel at both stations count on you as a firefighter/medic, an officer and a friend. Don't let them down. GOOD LUCK AND STAY SAFE..

  4. #4
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    new hudson
    Posts
    4

    Exclamation vote results MAFF

    Today the results of our union vote became know, split 50/50. No Go.
    it just reinterated what we've known for years a division amongst the dept. Safety was not at issue, our department is one of the safest in our area. what was at issue is the failure to communicate, lack of leadership, (at Station 2)and not letting the system in place work.

    It will take some time for the dept. to swallow this and figure out how to move on. It will be harder on those who were promised "a place on the new r&p dept." or promised a higher helmet(i'd be a capt. if the union went thru. after all i was promised.) by those who are selective to go on calls, wash trucks, or just help where help is needed.

    The department doesn't need a lesson on safety we have the tools in place(at least on the north end) what you need to do is approach your sgt. (sgt 2) and say we need you to lead us. **** or get off the pot.
    their aren't many choices for officers down there, you may be the best and or only choices. Be safe and make as many calls as you can and be the last one to put down your towel.

  5. #5
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    new hudson
    Posts
    4

    Wink reply

    And don't be afraid to sign your name....I'm not. sgt 1 dtimmermann

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    ChiefOne2004's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Lets start of by pointing out some true facts as I have been told, the leadership at your station two has been lacking for many years and the choices are slim, but is it not part of you being a Sgt, no matter which station you are assigned, to be a good officer and take charge, maybe if you spoke to that officer one on one, not a a cronie of your assitant chief, but as a good firefighter for which you are.
    Now the "r&p"dept for which you speak???? seems like a deep and long resentment for another officer, have you tried talking to them??? you say that lack of communication is one of the problems.. well do you not think you could be the better man and talk to them? look pass the past problems that you have all had and start a new. The department is divided that is for sure, alot of mistrust over broken promises, broken friendships and a lot of past disrespect.
    As for safety, COME ON.... The MIOSHA report and the news articles were not enough to open your eyes, how about all the reports from firefighters about faulty equipment and appartus??? oh yeah those don't exist.

    Well the bottem line is change, the system is only in place to work if it is done fairly and unbiasedly.. that will not happen at LTFD union or no union, the administration has to change, no more blind eyes towards a selected few. Your family lives within the township think of them if not yourself, Do you not want the best for them as well. My name is unimportant my name, call me the fantom for all you like, I know you are a good firefighter and enjoy doing your job, but don't be clouded either by promises of promotions or special treatment either. NO MATTER WHAT STATION YOU ARE AT OF YOU RADIO CALL SIGN.. YOU ARE A SERGEANT FOR THE LTFD.. NOT JUST STATION ONE... good luck and be safe.

    Fell free to email me at ChiefOne2004@firehousemail.com if you would like to chat....

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Mount Clemens, MI
    Posts
    113

    Default

    DTimmerman,

    Its nice to see that you are speaking out. I sit here reading your post and the replies from ChiefOne2004. The vote on the union was split 50/50. This does not mean that anybody won (Township or firefighters). This does mean that there are atleast 11 of the 26 firefighters that want to bring in the union. I'm not going to sit here and make an issue out of a dead subject. I will say that now that the union has been decided upon and they wont be coming in, it is time for our department to look past this and move on.

    I want to talk about a few issues that you had mentioned.
    Safety was not at issue, our department is one of the safest in our area. what was at issue is the failure to communicate, lack of leadership, (at Station 2)and not letting the system in place work.
    You say that safety is not an issue. How can you say that. If we have problems with communication, than safety must be an issue. If we cant communicate than how can we work in a safe mannor? We have had a communication problem for as long as you and I can remember. If the chief only had an open door policy maybe everybody would be able to communicate better. The A** kissers are the same people that get away with murder and the only people that the Chief and Asst. Chief listen to. I refuse to be an A** Kisser as you should aready know.

    The statement you made about lack of leadership at station 2. That is the best statement you made. We do have poor leadership. What does that mean? SAFETY CONCERNS!!! If we dont have leadership than we are bound to have safety issues. If I knew that I would be backed up when I make a decision, I might consider being an officer. They never backed up my brother when he was a Sgt. They let everybody walk all over him. When he wrote people up for breaking the rules they just ran to the Chief and he told them not to worry about it. That just tells me that the Sgt's and Lt's on our department are just fall guys for the Chief and Asst. Chief. You know as well as I do, they never gave you and my brother a chance as officers. I know you have thought about resigning as a Sgt. Why? Because you dont get any respect. Thats because again the A** kissers get away with everything.

    When you and my brother were promoted as Sgt. it really surprised me. Out of all the people that applied for the position you and my brother were the two I never thought would have gotten the promotion. Even know you two were the best decision. I know you were good friends with T.Waker. Why dont you take some pointers from him. He was a pretty respected Lt. He is the type of officer we need at both stations. Its too bad he had to leave the way we did. He was one of the best. I hope the Chief makes a decision soon on what he is going to do about filling the leadership hole we have at station 2 . Maybe you should show up more often at 2 to help out in that void.

    Good luck and be safe...See ya around the station!!!
    Andrew J. LaPrise

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Mount Clemens, MI
    Posts
    113

    Default

    Need I say anymore?

    Attaining above 100%

    Ever wonder about those people who say they are giving more than 100%?
    We have all been to those meetings where someone wants over 100%.
    How about achieving 103%? Here's a little math that might prove helpful.
    What makes life 100% if:
    A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    is represented as:
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
    Then:
    H A R D W O R K
    8 1 18 4 23 15 18 11 = 98%

    K N O W L E D G E
    11 14 15 23 12 5 4 7 5 = 96%

    But,
    A T T I T U D E
    1 20 20 9 20 21 4 5 = 100%
    And,
    B U L L S H I T
    2 21 12 12 19 8 9 20 = 103%
    So, it stands to reason that hard work and knowledge will get you
    close, attitude will get you there, but bull**** will put you over the
    top.
    And look how far
    A S S K I S S I N G
    1 19 19 11 9 19 19 9 14 7 = 118%
    will take you!

    What more do I need to say? You don't even need to be a
    mathematician now if we can just figure out when to use which!!!!!!!!

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    ChiefOne2004's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10

    Default Comical reply

    Well FireFly2420,

    You seemed to hit the nail on the head. Very comical and it seems that many have enjoyed it. Since the Vote has much changed as promised? I have heard word that your next chief may be you current Asst. Chief, Good luck, it seems that many whispers have taken seat in the politicians minds that old Danny boy is their main man. Well remember these word " VOTE OF NO-CONFIDENCE", I am sure you can figure out what it means, if not email me I can get you the info. And to the others from LTFD that read this site (and you know who you are,) the man that has been making all the promises though backdoor routes and may be your next chief likes to talk behind your backs, make false accusations, blatant lies and spreads misinformation as if it were truth. You as citizens within the community, do you really wish this man to lead you into the battle against the beast, to be able to make the right decision that may endanger your life. Speak up to the truth that you know, don't be clouded by what has been promised, promises have been broken before as have friendships. And to you Chief if you get wind of this and I am sure you will... You are a very good man that has allowed your son to dictate and bully the men and women that look up to you for far to long, The union idea was not necessesarily against you, but to be part of the department, the Fire service ...she is a changing and your boys and girls want to be a part of a good thing for a long time to come, don't just micromanage them, allow them to grow and guide them along, you will not be surprised to see the department that you have sacrificed for grow with leaps and bounds.

    Good luck and Stay safe brothers and sisters of LTFD and to those of you who may be having the same problems.

    ChiefOne2004

  10. #10
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Default

    This is the most incredible thread that I have seen on "forums" I am sitting here, counting my blessings...........Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register