Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
Closed Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 71
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    14

    Default Reed Hoods VS new carbon hoods vs other sock hoods

    this question i am sure has been asked 100 times with 100 different answers. Which hoods protect better?

    I know the the reed hood protects better then most sock hoods. The reed hood is made just like the turnout gear is.

    but with these new hoods out the carbon shield hoods i would like to get hard data on which is better. I know the carbon hoods can handle temps up to 2372 F while the reed hood is also above 1200 F (could not find a extact number)

    here is the carbon hood i'm talking about
    http://www.pgi-inc.com/carbon_shield_photos.htm
    http://www.pgi-inc.com/carbon_shield.htm

    anyhelp would be great. websites would be great or places to look for testing info.


  2. #2
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    21

    Default

    When talking about protecting ones head from flames and heat, take into consideration the thermal tolerance of the visor in the face mask of your BA. If it melts because of heat or flames I don´t think it matters what kind of hood you are wearing.

    It would be interesting to see some sort of a test comparing visor heat tolerance against hood heat tolerance.

    Don´t take me wrong I am all for hoods and always wear a PBI hood myself

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Houston area
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Although I do not have any specific data to share, from looking at some carbon hoods, here's something to consider: Look not only at the temperatures the material will withstand, but also look at the ability for heat to transfer through it. The carbon hoods that I have seen are very thin, and even if they don't burn, heat will transfer through them. The Reed, like you said, is thick like bunker gear, several layers of insulation that the heat will have to penetrate.
    These are my opinions and not those of the organizations for which I work and/or volunteer.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I do know that thickness DOES NOT mean less heat passes. I know some materials can be very thin and not let much heat through. that is why i want to see test results. I know shields melt around 500-700 F. but if i am in a flash over that is 1200 F i don't care if my shield melts but more that i'm ok

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    NY state of mind
    Posts
    121

    Default

    [ I know shields melt around 500-700 F. but if i am in a flash over that is 1200 F i don't care if my shield melts but more that i'm ok [/B][/QUOTE]

    w110fire1,
    First of all let me say that no matter what hood you're wearing, you will not survive in a flashover, period. Regarding the subject of hoods though, I would prefer to feel the heat. Excesive heat transfer through the hood should be a red flag, telling you to back out.

  6. #6
    Junior Member 12865's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Why wear hoods at all? The firefighter is way too encapsalated these days as it is. Flaps and a collar is all you need for interior firefighting.

    We just recently (6 months ago) went to wearing turnout pants rather than wool pants, and I still think we should be wearing those.....

    Don't knock it until you have tried it. I came from another department where we had hoods and turnout pants, and the Oakland way (no hood/pants) is MUCH better.
    -----------
    Oakland Fire Department, California
    IAFF Local 55
    -----------

  7. #7
    Senior Member bfpd36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    163

    Default

    When I first started, I was issued a nomex hood that I wore religiously. As time went on though, I found myself pulling the hood back off my ears so I could figure out where the fire was. It has gotten to the point now that the only time I wear my hood is in the winter on outside operations.

    I agree that no heat penetration can be a very dangerous thing! You can end up in the thick of it before you realize it.
    ftm-ptb-rbp
    leather forever

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I like the the idea of having the hood. The one thing i don't like about the reed hood is that my head movement is less due to the thickness. I don't like having my ears open to the heat. Here we make aggresive attacks to the seed of the fire and the idea that my ears and face might be open to temp 250 F and up does not sit well with me. remember skin can burn at less then 140 F.

    The reason i am asking about the hoods is that right now we use reed hoods and i would like to submit facts to my board and get it changed to the New Carbon hoods if they work as well. I know that other socks hoods do not protect as well.

    Now about the flash over statement i made. A fellow firefighter was just outside a room when it flashed. his shield melted, his reflected tape on his gear burned (that burns at temps above 600 f) and his mask started to fail. without a hood on he would have been burned.
    I have to be able to show that the new Carbon hoods work as well as reed hoods.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    31

    Default

    WI10Fire1- If you are with the West I-10 Dept in West Harris county, you need to call the fire chief with the Little York FD concerning the carbon hoods. He had two members that were burned with the carbon hood. The nozzle man had second degree burns to the ears and neck. Due to this, ALL carbon hoods where taken up and everyone issued Reed hoods.

    I for myself wear a carbon on non-entry fires, ie. vehicle fires. I wear both the carbon and Reed for structure fires.
    These are MY opinions only, not the organizations that I am affiliated with.

    Dont forget to wear your "REED"!

    Be Safe
    Jerremy Brown

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    14

    Default

    ok that is all i needed to hear. I'm sticking with a reed hood.
    brown what FD are you with?

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber Firefighter430's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Virgilina, VA USA
    Posts
    323

    Default

    Wear a hood that works for you and is approved for structural firefighting. I have never worn a Reed Hood and don't believe there is one in our county but I'm sure they work very well. I have a carbon that is brand new and have yet to test it. When I bought it the sales person told me that it would stand up to over 2000F and not burn. I thought to myself at the time "how nice at least they would find a hood after all Me and my other gear was ash"...LOL. Hoods save your neck and ears in most situations. I have seen steam burns through turnout gear in the past so nothing works 100%, but I have also heard about guys having paint/bug spray/whatever else could be in a structure, explode and send a rain of fire on the back of their neck and ears causing burns that a hood would have protected them from.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum."

    - Gen. Joseph Stilwell
    (Lat., "Don't let the *~#%&S grind you down.")

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Houston area
    Posts
    55

    Thumbs up

    Once again, I have to go with the Reed. The situation Jeremy shared is not a unique one. His career department went through this, also. They researched the options and ended up issuing all Reed hoods. In our area of the country, interior firefighting is the rule. Not being thoroughly protected can result in steam burns very quickly.

    As far as using our ears to find a fire, we are fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of technology. I'll take a thermal imager over blisters on my ears anyday!

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    14

    Default

    As far as using our ears to find a fire, we are fortunate enough to be able to take advantage of technology. I'll take a thermal imager over blisters on my ears anyday!

    Got to love those thermal imagers. they are great, every company should have one.


    Question for those who don't use hoods. Do you do interior firefighting or more stand outside the room burning and spray? Also how many people use little water and let the steam knock the fire out and on the other side who uses more water and knock the fire out.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    145

    Default

    I have been using the carbon hood for about 4 months now. It holds its shape wonderfully, it does not stretch out like the conventional hoods tend to do over time. I also have found the carbon hood to be thicker than what we are issued by our county FD. The reed hood looks excellent, I have never been in a department that uses them so I do not have any first hand experience with them. For affordability and durability the carbon hood has proven excellent so far.

  15. #15
    Senior Member bfpd36's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    163

    Default

    In the quest to be brief, I left out too much. We have Thermal Imagers, and we use them for fire attack. We also do agressive interior attacks. I have found that if you keep your collar up and your helmet flaps down, you are covered.

    I am all for technology, but I also like to be prepared in case the technology doesn't work.
    ftm-ptb-rbp
    leather forever

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Houston area
    Posts
    55

    Default

    Everyone's definition of an interior attack is different. Guys with Reed hoods have guys with sock hoods run out on them all the time. That's a fact in our area, not myth. MOST cases, it isn't the extreme heat from getting too far that burns them, its the steam from knocking down the fire from its seat. Fog nozzles are very popular in our area, and many companies measure their success by how little water they can knock down a fire with. This results in a lot of heat when those few gallons of water quickly convert.

    My career department used smooth bore nozzles for years, which resulted in smaller amounts of steam. Now we use Vindicators and get similar results. There are a few in this department that rely on sock hoods only, but that's only because they don't want to fork out the 140 bucks to wear one.

    The three departments surrounding us issue everyone Reed hoods. Many of us have used both sock and Reed hoods. I can't think of anyone off the top of my head that's consistantly used a Reed and gone back to a sock hood only. I do know countless who have tried it and loved it.

    It's hot and heavy. A little tougher to hear through, but not enough to keep most people from wearing a triple-layer underneath the Reed. You probably won't want to wear it on car fires, dumpster fires, overhaul, etc... It does provide superior thermal and steam protection compared to any other hood on the market. Hopes this helps.

  17. #17
    Junior Member 12865's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    13

    Default

    we are very aggressive in our attacks. we are also very aggressive with our topside venting!! This takes alot of the heat out of the fire building. Also, like the other very traditional fire department on the west coast (san francisco) we are taught the old technique of STAYING LOW!!! A VERY lost skill today where a young firefighter cannot feel the difference between the ceiling temperature and the floor temperature because he is encased in 100000 layers of protection!!!

    As far as flashovers go...the whole reason to NOT wear hoods is to prevent being in an area when it might flash. The main indicator for a possible flash/roll over is a sudden increase in heat. It is TOO HARD to tell with a hood on. We go to a lot of fires between us and SF. We do not have many burn injuries. We wear LESS gear than many departments that have more burn injuries, and we are EXTREMELY aggressive. (sometimes WAY TOO aggressive). I am not saying that in all situations I would not want a hood. Maybe if I was a oil refinery FF with very high ambient temperatures and radiant heat exposures I would want it, otherwise flaps and collar are more than enough!!
    -----------
    Oakland Fire Department, California
    IAFF Local 55
    -----------

  18. #18
    Forum Member RyanEMVFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Why? It's not like you're going to visit me! But I'm near Waco, Texas
    Posts
    2,386

    Default

    there was a gentleman that came to one of our county meetings and gave a demostration on the carbon hoods. he burnt a piece of nomex hood and a pbi hood. then he placed his hand inside the carbon hood and used the torch to burn the carbon hood. his hand didn't burn and he never moved it from inside the hood. afterwards the hood wasn't any good because of the direct flame contact. i was told that the Austin Fire Dept just issued the carbon hoods to their firefighters. i have truly never seen a reed hood in person and can not comment on their performance. to me it all depends on what the firefighter wants, or what the chief wants to buy. i wear a pbi hood and love it, i will consider a carbon hood the next time i have to get a new hood.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
    IACOJ Attack

    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Houston area
    Posts
    55

    Thumbs up

    Ryan, sounds impressive. I'd like to check one out myself. I don't see anything replacing my Reed hood, but I would replace my Nomex triple-layer for someting a little lighter. What's the cost of one? Check a Reed hood out if you ever get a chance.



    As I said before, everyone's idea of aggressive is different. FFs in our area were once in a situation where hoods weren't used. Then we went to sock hood. Capt. Clifford Reed introduced the Reed hood in the mid-80's and Houston FD and most surrounding departments have never looked back. As I said, it's a matter of preference. We've tried BOTH and most choose the Reed for aggressive firefighting.

  20. #20
    Junior Member 12865's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    13

    Default

    I agree that there are different styles of firefighting and different definitions of aggressive.
    We have companies in Oakland that will throw a ladder onto a fully involved *detached* garage in order to cut in hole in it, while the engine crew goes right inside with HEAVY fire conditions. This is very aggressive in my book. I feel that in these circumstances, probably too aggressive. We really dont need a hole cut in a roof on a 2 car garage, but its good practice, especially when you fall through. You learn the feel of a bad roof pretty quick.

    In my opinion (and thats exactly what this is...nothing more) an aggressive company with hoods can get too far into a fire. If this company has fog nozzles, and they are using it on a fog stream, they WILL get burned. Without hoods, the men cant get into a fully involved room without getting burned, so they have to darken the fire down from a little more distance and then advance to the seat of it.

    Opinions?
    -----------
    Oakland Fire Department, California
    IAFF Local 55
    -----------

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts