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Thread: same old thing

  1. #1
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    Default same old thing

    why did they accept more appliciations in 2002 when they did not fill all the ones they got in 2001. seems some depts. will just keep filling out appliciations but not getting anything.
    Jimmie D. Brady


  2. #2
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    In any grant process, any qualified applicant can apply each 'time' for a grant. That doesnt mean, if they're rejected, they won't be able to apply the next time.

    Same thing goes here. Yes, X Department may apply every year for 10 years and never get anything. And Y Department may apply each year, and get something. All depends on the ratings and qualifications system in place during those given years.

    Ideally, departments who aern't funded build on or change their application the following year to better qualify. Even if there was the $3 Billion + everyone wanted this year or last, if that amount was available, there'd probably be $6 Billion in requests.

    In the process, there will be many grants unfunded that deserved to be funded, and some funded that probably didn't. Likewise, there will be grants submitted every year that shouldn't be funded and won't be, even if resubmitted over and over. Its all about a balance.

    But, many more departments this year than last year will be winners, and hopefully as the years build more and more will have an opportunity to be among those selected as Congress hopefully adds more funding to the program.

  3. #3
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    Default

    I agree with the webteam and would like to throw one more coment in on it. Departments must refile after every year in case the project they requested funding for the previous year has already been funded. I know my department looks for money anywhere we can get, and i'm almost as positive that other departments do too. The application process is a must to keep a balance of the system. Without it the money would be handed on a first come first serve basis or worse. The peer review panel is the fairest way to determine who gets what. It's a waiting game that to me is exciting. Good luck to all and be safe.

  4. #4
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    Default luck of the draw

    i am from a small town whih little money with a budget that is less than 10000.00 a year a lot less and we filled out the fema grant for the frist time this year and got a grant for a 145000.00 dollar for a class a pumper next year i will ask for a new grass truck to replace the 1985 truck we have now but if not for the grant in 5 years i would only have what i have now which is a 1985 grass truck so i hope i can apply again next year and have a chance. i filled out the grant myself and we could not affored a grant writer and i never attended any grant classes so we were just lucky they saw our need .

    thanks for your time and be safe

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    I sense some dispair in brady's post! I sometimes feel that way too, but I must say its the way the cookie crumbles! This grant process is very similar to the Federal Block Grants in our state, with the exception that you can present your case before a peer board first hand. Been there and done that sucessfully twice, but was rejected for six years in a row until we were successful the first time. I agree that the way things are run here is probably the best way for now but I can see need for some improvements. I spoke to a fire official today, who was on the peer panel, this person told me that the perception out there is that the states with more departments serving high per capita areas are more needy than the departments with less population, thus should receive more awards. They told me to watch for two states in particular, and with the last round of awards it looks like they might be on to something. FFmedic1161 is right on when he says look for funds anywhere possible, keep trying and be assured that there are departments out there that will be thinking the worst until that notice comes. The web team says its all about balance, sometimes you can balance as good as you can and still be a little heavy on one side but its still a balance. We will be waiting for some good news and if it comes, its effect will be felt for many years to come, and if its bad news we will be disapointed for sure but you can bet we'll be back. Good luck to all!! Be Good- if you can't- be Carefull

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    Default

    Congrats there scruggs!!! That should be encouraging for all us small depts!!

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    Default Happy and sad all at the same time.

    Scruggs,
    good job, I am very happy for you guys! My company is in a similar situation, we have a little more income to work with but not much more. I was informed yesterday via telephone call that we have been denied the grant. Obvioulsy this was very dissapointing. We too could not afford a grant writer, so I did it myself. Apparently I did not show enough need. We have had a lot of stuff added to our township, fuel storage, an airport, more gas stations etc.., plus we have a very bad hydrant system and no water in most of our call area, so we requested a CAFS tanker pumper to satisfy the new needs or our community and provide extended initial water supply. I have looked at some of the people who have won, and some truly deserved it, but some of the companies I have seen, already have 6 or 7 pieces of newer apparatus and they are winning. I dont quite understand why that is? I know, I know, the need, but this grant was intended to fund those companies that are struggling to make the basics happen. While our truck can put wet stuff on the red stuff, it is not suited to the new challenges we face in our community. Well, there I said it. Good luck to all remaining applicants. I sincerely hope you win.

    Pete

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    Default The rich get richer, and the poor get poor!!!

    Last year, one department in Indiana, where I am from, got both of there grant requests for 27% of the money that came to Indiana. One department out of over 900 in the state ! ! ! This year, one of the first 2 department that announced successful grant applications was Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue. They got over $84,000.00. This to a department that, from their web site, has a budget of OVER 58 MILLION dollars a year and assests of several HUNDRED MILLION dollars. We didn't get the money to replace our 1963 Ford/American Barton pumper last year(which, by the way, they do not make replacement parts for anymore), and it is not looking good this year. I still consider my department very lucky. We did internally fund the replacement of 14 new SCBA's for $52,000.00, and then found a department in another state to donate our old, outdated SCBA's to. They had NONE.
    Non Volunteering Volunteer (Retired)

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    Default FF_EMT1

    We're in a similar boat here with having a 1959 Chevy, and a 1969 Seagrave. However we went for ops/safety instead of vehicle. We felt if we are to recieve a grant that our need for protection of our volunteers far outweighed the problem with apparatus. We currently only have 1 working SCBA, so we rely heavily on the mutual aid company to help, and not all of our personnel have turnout gear. We applied last year and were denied. No one could quite figure out why.
    The only thing I could think of was that I didn't present our situation well enough in our narrative. This Spring I attended a workshop only 6 miles from here on the grant. Of the hand full there, I was the only one going to apply this year. I had last years app. with me and the individual who was doing the "seminar" was on last years peer review panel. He looked at last years app. and gave me some very good pointers on what to do differently this year. The biggest change that I made was in writing the narrative, he explained that that can make the final disposition of your app. if you are "borderline". I'm hoping things go better this go around. The questionaire e-mail I recieved did state that our app. was favorably reccommended by the peer review panel. However; I haven't heard anything else from FEMA. I do think that the process is running somewhat smoother than last year. It appears to me that they do not have any set procedure for notification. Some recieve questions, then direct deposit e-mail, some just recieve direct deposit e-mail, some recieve phone calls, some not etc... It appears to me that they still have some bugs to work out.
    Stay Safe!!!!!!!

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

  10. #10
    Forum Member jmkfire's Avatar
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    Unhappy One other thing!

    Getting the direct deposit e-mail and then being told that it was a mistake (like in Pete's case). How gut-wrenching that must be

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

  11. #11
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    Default

    I checked out the website for Tualatin Valley Fire & Rescue. They do indeed have a very healthy budget. I was actually viewing it with the guys here at the station. We were all astounded that a department in such good shape would receive such a large grant, when there are obviously hundreds, if not thousands, of departments that have so little. This may sound like sour grapes, but I assure you it isn't. Just wondering what FEMA is thinking sometimes. We applied for funds to get a newer ladder truck. The one we have is a 68 ALF that is, quite frankly, worn out. It minimumly passes ladder tests each year and hasn't passed a pump test since we've had it. You would think the city would do the right thing and replace it, but they won't. They say they don't have the funds. However, they have no problem at all giving the police department brand new vehicles every two years or so. We do have one 97 commercial vehicle that really isn't what we need. The rest of our fleet is at least 30 years old. Twice, while responding to fires, the engine I was driving caught fire itself! We are recovering from the bumblings of the former chief who, in my opinion, is an idiot. He would actually turn half the budget back in to the city every year! It's sad that we would have to rely on a grant for something that our city ought to supply in the first place. So far, we've heard nothing from FEMA, one way or the other. We are still hoping, though. To all those who got grants, congrats...and to all those still in the running, good luck!

  12. #12
    Forum Member dragonfyre's Avatar
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    Default

    Just got off the phone with a friend at the USFA.

    Read my post under Federal Fire ACT Grants, "Dear John"
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  13. #13
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    Post Better than most

    The best thing about the Fire Act has been the proportion of the funding that actually gets to the user. Most federal programs cost $30 to $50 dollars to get $1 to the end user. The Fire Act appears to be getting 90+ percent to the individual departments. For government that is unusual. Just look how FEMA used a computer system and "free" reviewers instead of a permanent staff of 300 for the program. Their efforts mean 30 Million more for our communiites.

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    Unhappy Some win - some lose

    Congrats to Tualatin Valley, Akron OH and everyone else who won the federal funding. I have no displeasure with anyone who is lucky enough to score.
    But one has to wonder about the grant award process. A $58 million dollar a year department gets a grant over some volunteers who really do need it?? How about the Akron City FD who got $585,000. This is the same city that bought a quint, 2 ambulances and couple police cars to 'donate' to New York City after the big one. Imagine what the community could have bought the city FD if they kept the money!!??

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    We respectfully ask that users do not 'bash' or otherwise single out a Department for winning an award, in a negative manner. Any future posts of this nature will be removed.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber killerb's Avatar
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    Default A word for rural fire departments

    Our fire department has an income of approximately $7200 a year (at current subscription level, used to be a lot less), and yet we've been successful in building a well-trained, reasonably well-equipped fire department from scratch in a period of six years.

    We filed for a FEMA grant last year and didn't get it. Two other rural departments in our area did. We know the people. Power to them.

    You CANNOT count on grants to solve all your problems. You must have Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C. You have to know where you need to go, and figure out a way to get there. Some take longer than others. Think three to five years out. Set realistic goals. Grant awards make it easier and faster, but everyone who applies for a grant will not receive one. As a matter of fact, MOST applicants won't receive one.

    We've been pretty succesful over the past 6 years with State grants and Forestry grants. They built our fire station, and bought a lot of our equipment. We STILL don't have decent bunker gear, but that's #1 on our priority list at this point in the game, and that's what we asked for on this year's FEMA grant.

    If we get a FEMA grant, we will ALL get new gear. If we don't get a FEMA grant, we won't all get new gear. Plan B is that we may be able to buy some (not all, probably) new gear with a grant award from another source. Plan C is that until that time we will set some guidelines for who gets new gear, and provide it a set at a time according to whatever criteria we set until we get everyone equipped. May take a while longer.

    Back to grants... we've been successful because we apply for a lot of grants. It's not unusual for us to have two or three applications pending at any given time. We also study the grant criteria and correct deficiencies. For example, if training gets you more points, increase your training and prepare for the next round of grants. Fire service is all about being prepared...yes/no?

    Usually it's not just a matter of NEED, it's need plus some additional evidence of local effort on your part. If you need more people, recruit. If you need more training, do it.

    If FEMA doesn't come through for you, figure something else out and try again next time around. Look for other sources. If you're a forums participant, you have internet access. Use it.

    Etc., etc., etc.

    Don't give up. Keep pounding. Something will shake loose sooner or later. Don't count on FEMA. JEEZ!!! The FEMA grants DIDN'T EVEN EXIST TWO YEARS AGO, and now everyone is suddenly COUNTING on them? Give me a break.
    Last edited by killerb; 07-27-2002 at 12:43 AM.
    Asst. Chief Bill

    International Order of the Fraternal Brotherhood of the Club

    Somewhere in or near north central Creek County, Oklahoma

  17. #17
    Member ffemt1's Avatar
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    Question Your help is needed.

    Your advice is drastically needed. You have now, on at least a couple of occasions, admonished posters for using examples of what they believe are flaws in the Fire Act grant process. Seems to me that foxden6 shows an us excellent example.

    His posting was “How about the Akron City FD who got $585,000. This is the same city that bought a quint, 2 ambulances and couple police cars to 'donate' to New York City after the big one. Imagine what the community could have bought the city FD if they kept the money!!??”

    Would he have pass your inspection if he had used different wording, such as “Hey, can anyone explain why a department got a $585,000 grant just months after donating a new quint, 2 ambulances and couple police cars to New York City?’

    So, my question is, “If this is not the “correct” procedure, and this is not the correct forum, what do you recommend? It seems like you want anyone who does not agree with the current posting to bury his or her head in the sand. Is that correct?

    By the way, with a little work, maybe next years application process will include a question like “How much did you spend last year on non-direct firefighting purchases.” This would include “gifts”, “grant writers”, “parties”, “awards”, you know, all of the stuff poorer departments can’t afford.

    Non Volunteering Volunteer (Retired)

  18. #18
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    ff_emt1

    admonished posters for using examples of what they believe are flaws in the Fire Act grant process
    That is not a correct statement. We, like anyone else, are feel free to give their opinion on anything. We simply asked users not single out a single department for winning a grant. Almost everyone, barring a few people, seems to be respecting that request. There is nothing wrong with discussing the process, what can be improved, what's bad, what's good. Thats what is taking place in most of these threads.

    Here is the bottom line: Don't bash another department on these forums got getting a grant. There is no place for that here. It serves no purpose that to provide negative light to a Department who did their best, followed the proper procedures, and was awarded a grant. If you have a problem with grants going for Fire Prevention, grants going to wealthy departments, etc. take it up with FEMA or other places. But don't pin blame or sarcasm on a Department that simply is trying to help their community.

    Where can you discuss it? Anywhere but here. There is no inspection process, its just a simple request that seeminly most others are following without a problem. Especially given most of the grants haven't even been handed out yet, seems even less fair anyone would take this forum to bash some other department for simply being awarded a grant.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

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    Lightbulb

    Originally posted by webteam
    We respectfully ask that users do not 'bash' or otherwise single out a Department for winning an award, in a negative manner. Any future posts of this nature will be removed.
    With due respect to the webmasters and all fortunate departments who may (or will) receive grants in 2002, my original posting is not an intent to 'bash' any particular department. But to point out that the application process may leave something to be desired. Is it a fair process, or isn't it? Obviously, the answers will vary.

    It is the FEMA process that I question, not the individual departments. I don't care if I ever get a grant! I just want to know why some smaller departments with very definitive needs are being passed over????

  20. #20
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    foxden6

    Its not as big a problem as the earlier post seemed to indicate we were making it. As you see we havent removed any posts. We just ask that everyone restrain themselves a little bit and don't single out another department who wins for the type of award, etc. The program allows for them to win. The actual original comments about this from us were in reference to a post here and a post in another thread (which has been deleted) for being a bit over the top and more of a direct bash on the intent of what a department was doing with the funds.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

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