07-23-2002, 04:36 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
Partner K12FD vs. Ventmaster vs. Anything Else
I must replace my company's K12 power saw as it is now a venerable 20 years old. I just started to search the market for its replacement and was wondering if anyone out there has recently purchased a similiar saw and had any strong opinions on make, model, blades, pro's or con's ...etc. Any input would be appreciated.
07-23-2002, 06:23 PM #2
- Join Date
- May 2002
Its hard to be objective when talking about tools but I really like the Echo vent saw. Itís a chain type saw with about a 20degree down pitch to the chain bar so it is very natural to operate on the roof pitches we have here in the North East.
It cuts wood/asphalt material much faster than the rotary saws that I have used and the saw does a good job of clearing the vent hole if needed, very easy to maneuver.
One of the down sides is that it is a more single purpose tool than a rotary saw which you can change wheels on for different materials. In addition, Iím not too impressed with the chain durability, the carbide teeth may stay sharp a long time but they also chip. But, the chain has never broke nor has the saw ever failed to start.
Just my opinion, not my departments or any one I work for.
07-23-2002, 10:39 PM #3
- Join Date
- Sep 2000
- Westchester Co., NY USA
If there are 2 saws in this world that I absolutely love its the Kwikvent by Echo, which WHF stated already and Cutters Edge with a bullet chain. Both have favorable features, but I do have to say that in my opinion the cutters edge is built for a little more abuse. We beat the $hit out of saws, the Kwikvent's take some punishment, but have a few unsupported plastic parts that are a little flimsy, we also had to solve a few personnel operator error situations that were burning out the safety brakes on them. The cutter's edge seems pretty solid, starts very well in smoky conditions, has the depth gage to stop anyone from thinking of cutting through rafters and those bullet chains eat whatever its going through like a hot knife through butter. Biggest problem as with any saw is they are easy to flood. Also the kwikvent has a plate on the bottom that when cutting if you tilt the saw forward on the plate, it is the perfect angle of cutting through just the decking material, that is most of the time. We have those here who firmly believe that having more then 1 layer of roofing is more beneficial than stripping the old one.
07-24-2002, 12:10 AM #4
- Join Date
- Feb 2002
CUTTERS EDGE WITH A BULLETT CHAIN, WELL BALANCED, CUTS THRU ANYTHING
07-26-2002, 11:53 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
Are company bought a Cutters Edge with a bullet chain,It will cut thru anything,easy to start
07-27-2002, 01:06 AM #6
- Join Date
- Feb 2000
We carry two K-12s, one with metal cutting blade, the other has a 42 tooth carbide tipped blade, we also carry a VentMaster,it is built with a husqvuarna engine, and we love this saw, we carry all three on our front line engine, so that we can cover most tasks.
07-27-2002, 01:22 AM #7
Both of our stations each have a Partner K-12. My station also has a Stihl chain saw with the carbi-chain and a cutter's edge depth guard. Our other station has a true "vent saw".
Now, we love our Stihl. That saw has taken a serious beating over the 6-7 years we've had it. One time it was left on the roof of a garage fire when the roof started to go up. (One person was climbing down the ladder and the other person had to jump off the roof because it was going up so quick). The only thing that had to be replaced on it was the outer plastic cover. It still runs like a champ to this day. THe other saw (the true vent saw) has seen it's better days.
We are in the process of getting 2 new chain saws and, from the research we have done, we are going to get 2 new stihl's. Much cheaper than one of the "true vent saws" and, from our experience, more reliable.
07-27-2002, 03:17 AM #8
My company has 4 saws on our tower ladder. Two of the saws are Partner and the other 2 are Cutters Edge. The partner saws are great for forcible entry and commercial roofs. They are both set up with metal blades. They have taken alot of abuse over the years. The Cutter Edge saws are great for residental fires. They work great on the roof and you don't have to cut in straight lines like the Partner saw. They are also great for cutting holes in floors and walls for the RIT. The only problem we had with the Cutters Edge is the nut for the depth guide came loose a couple of times while working the saw. The nut was tight at the start of the operation. Over all we are happy with both types of saws.
07-27-2002, 11:18 AM #9
Hey go ahead,kick me.You need two saws!I really like the Cutters edge,works well in heavy smoke on a variety of roofing material.Favored tool of LAFD Bat. Chief John Mittendorf (Ret.)but I also got a soft spot for the new K-12 with the pirana wheel(misspelled)The K-12 has the ability to do wheel change to cut other materials(you know this)The CE,Well?They're both great tools.Good luck,and happy shopping T.C.
07-28-2002, 09:47 AM #10
I would echo the sentiments here that say go with the Chain Saw type vent saw.
I have never liked the K-12 saws as in my opinion I think the are more dangerous. I am not trying to spark a controversy here jus tpassing an opinion. I think the chain saws are easier to handle and safer....bottom line. I know the K-12's have been used for years and used very successfully. In fact when I first started in 1971 that is all that was use....so...yes...I have used them.
Many innovative improvements have been developed in the use of chain saws. Fore example, Tempest has the intake that is filtered and smoke is actually dispersed by the flywheel on the husquavana engine before it gets inside, making it run more effectively in smoke. Cutter's Edge, Echo...they all have great saws and I have used most of them. Look at them all...Call the local rep to bring them out and demonstrate them and let you "hold one." Then decide. The carbide tip or bullet chain definitely get the job done. Some of them even allow for the removal of the Depth gauge allowing the saw to function as a regular chain saw.
Good luck09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
"Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.
07-28-2002, 11:25 AM #11
- Join Date
- Jun 1999
We opperate with three of the saws being discussed.
Echo Kwikvent: Got 2 of them, Can't beat them for ordinary, residential structures.
Cutters Edge w/ bullet chain: again, can't beat it. Carbide chain will cut through roofing and nails with ease. In my opinion, a more agressive saw than the Echo.
Partner K-12: Just got a brand new one to replace an old tired one. More of a "multipurpose" saw. Wouldn't consider not having one due to the demographics of our district. Can cut through concrete and steel with the proper blades.
I'm not recomending one over the other because each has it's role in our department.
If you were looking to buy ONE saw and it was the only one you have, I would look at what the primary need of it is. If you operate in a primaraly residental setting you may be able to get away with the Echo or Cutters Edge. If you operate in more of a suburban/urban setting, you may want to consider a Partner.
07-28-2002, 01:49 PM #12
If you're replacing a rotary with a rotary, whatever you do, get a light one. We have a Stihl circular and that SOB is heavy as hell. Your almost always doing a tricky cut when you have that thing out, and it seems you always have to lift it over shoulder height at some point (cutting a rollup door, bars on windows, etc.). I used a Partner a few times to cut concrete sidewalks and driveways on my off day and it seemed a lot lighter than the Stihl. I would definitely take weight into consideration.See You At The Big One
07-28-2002, 02:36 PM #13
- Join Date
- Oct 2001
- tilltonsville ohio
We utilize three different saws for various applications. We put a new K-12 in service to replace a 20 year old one on the engine-rescue, and we have purchased 2 cutters edge saw with the bullet chain for normal ventilation purposes, and we still utilize a regular chain saw for debris removal from roadways, and for trees on brush calls.
The K-12 still has a multitude of uses for us on certain calls, such as commercial building forceable entry and roofs, rescue cuts for industry, and this saw has never failed us yet. The cutters edge has done o.k. so far although we had to have the throttle lock replaced on one.
I have had the chance to use the plymovent and echo saws in the past. Both are nice saws and can do the job for most of our departments in the area. We just preffered the cutters edge because of the chain and its all purpose function.
Key is to practice and get use to them on several different applications that you may face.
KEEP DOING IT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS!!!!!!!!!!!!
07-28-2002, 05:55 PM #14
George,Is that by chance a 55 Stihl?If it is,I know where you're coming from.We got one,a great tool but don't drop it or you're going with it.T.C.
01-21-2003, 06:18 PM #15
- Join Date
- Mar 2000
- PA, USA
If you are looking for a circular saw-go with a partner-if you are looking for a vent saw-cutters edge.
01-21-2003, 06:26 PM #16
K-12 or Stihl for metal
Cutters Edge for wood/asphalt"We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."
01-21-2003, 07:21 PM #17
- Join Date
- May 2000
- Bristol, Pa
I know a tower ladder in my area that has five (5) saws.
1 Echo Kwikvent, 1 Cutters Edge, 1 Homelite with a metal blade,1 K-12 with a metal blade and 1 K-12 with a Worthog all purpose blade. Wow!
Bring it on!
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